remap complete......wow!!!

[RobM]

Haha here i am

The thing is, the K04 turbo will not flow more than a genuine 275-280bhp.

If you have ''276bhp'' from just a remap, it doesn't leave much scope for FMIC/DP/Cat/cat back/ induction kit and TIP along with a stage 2 tweak.

I was exactly the same mate, i had my LCR jabba mapped Dec 2004 and off it came with 274bhp. I took it a week later to JBS where it recorded 261bhp.

Where had my 13bhp gone It was still running as good
It was not until another LCR was run on the same day with full exhaust/remap and induction, and recorded 272bhp that i realised the jabba results were a tad optimistic.

After a couple of years of studying many rolling road results across these forums, its always jabba who are too ''generous'' with figures.

Real power from stage 1 remap, somewhere in between 260-265bhp. Add everything else, 280bhp at a very maximum.

I remember songman before he was IHI'd recorded 302bhp at jabba with K04 I think not Some other people claiming 280+.

If you dont believe me, do a search on google for max flow rates of the K0x branded turbos. I 'think' it was feel that posted up a table of the maxflow rates from the borg warner site, showing 280bhp maximum. Thats straight from the manufacturer

The main thing is, be happy with the way your car is driving. Dont look too much into these so called figures

Nice one Mitchy

 

[Woppywop]

So after reading all this, I would say mine would be about right YES??/NO??

 

[traumapat]

i think rudd summed up the best view of dynographs.. as an overview of power behavior as opposed to just a figure.
full of variables.

but isnt the car itself a huge variable? i know jabba dont hit high figures everytime.. so there must be reason. so in the same way 180 lc custom mapped car hits 210 why would another hit 235? same map or mapper on same rr same day.

ok the turbo becomes a restriction at a certain lvl. but this would seem to vary as to when. otherwise wouldnt jabba get 235 everytime?

we all accept that some cars struggle to hit 210 with a remap others get 220. why cant that variable swing positively?

 

[tinbum]

So my general conclusion from this thread is that Rob was right, and Jabba tell porkys !!!..........lol

 

[RobM]

It's not about being right or wrong, forums like this aren't about trying to prove yourself right. It's about sharing information, opinions and facts. Everybody knows how unreliable results are, and it doesn't take a genius to work out which companys and which RR's give the wildest, most exaggerated claims. The same names crop up time and time again with this subject, and the conversation always goes the same way too.

I tell you what.... if the starter of this thread can provide three separate print outs from three separate rolling roads that all claim 274bhp or thereabouts I, and I'm sure many others, will gladly eat our own words.

 

[stew]

sparky good results mate.still 42 bhp increase over what it was running standard.
if your car is running 222 std still means your car is running 264 now,only put this this as everyone goes on about dyno lottery.
so you should be happy enjoy,problem is when you get used to it you ll want more.

 

[tinbum]

It's not about being right or wrong, forums like this aren't about trying to prove yourself right. It's about sharing information, opinions and facts. Everybody knows how unreliable results are, and it doesn't take a genius to work out which companys and which RR's give the wildest, most exaggerated claims. The same names crop up time and time again with this subject, and the conversation always goes the same way too.

I tell you what.... if the starter of this thread can provide three separate print outs from three separate rolling roads that all claim 274bhp or thereabouts I, and I'm sure many others, will gladly eat our own words.

I was joking mate...chill !!!

 

[RobM]

I am chilled, that wasn't an aggressive post at all. I just didn't put any smilies in

 

[DPJ]

I was joking mate...chill !!!

I think it was totally unnecessary to tell him to chill.

 

[Ruddmeister]

its always jabba who are too ''generous'' with figures.

In fairness Stealth are another whose numbers seem 'optimistic'

 

[Ruddmeister]

Do you believe these 300+ figures flying around for 2.0tfsi? JBS 315bhp from just a stage 1 map 240-315

Interesting isn't it....I believe the 16v Head is better than the 20v head (20v was technology for it's own sake rather than anything else IMO) and the extra capacity and bottom end torque will help the 2.0tfsi...will it break 300bhp still too early to tell

Whatever the results I'd like to see the difference on the road, I tried a remapped LCR vs Std LCR a fair few time from rolling starts on the motorway and the difference only meant the remapped car could slowly edge away.....and I mean sloooow....With the different delivery in power on a Mk2 Leon it'll be interesteing to see

 

[Mikey_H]

Hi Sparky,

Congrats on the re-map mate, don't listen to these guys saying that jabba tell "porkies" on there figures and that they are way above what the car is actually running, on the internet jabba quote for my car 186-196 bhp and they only managed to get 176bhp this was due to the car being very new and only having a few thousand miles on the clock they also rr'd it 145bhp before the map which was due to my super air intake modifying skills so my question to the people that have said that there figures are optomistic how comes my car was higher than standard but didnt achive the figures they quoted on there website?? don't get me wrong i'm not saying that all rollers will read the same but who is to say that the other rollers aren't reading to low?? i think for people to sit there and say the figures are to high is ridiculous because the truth is no-one really know's.

sorry to the people that were congatulating mark that you had to read that just think there is no need for it, next time you think of slagging off someones figures just think, do i really need to say this?? or should i just say well done??


See you soon mate!!

 

[Mitchy]

Hi Sparky,

Congrats on the re-map mate, don't listen to these guys saying that jabba tell "porkies" on there figures and that they are way above what the car is actually running, on the internet jabba quote for my car 186-196 bhp and they only managed to get 176bhp this was due to the car being very new and only having a few thousand miles on the clock they also rr'd it 145bhp before the map which was due to my super air intake modifying skills so my question to the people that have said that there figures are optomistic how comes my car was higher than standard but didnt achive the figures they quoted on there website?? don't get me wrong i'm not saying that all rollers will read the same but who is to say that the other rollers aren't reading to low?? i think for people to sit there and say the figures are to high is ridiculous because the truth is no-one really know's.

sorry to the people that were congatulating mark that you had to read that just think there is no need for it, next time you think of slagging off someones figures just think, do i really need to say this?? or should i just say well done??


See you soon mate!!

Through experience and common sense is the answer to that You've been here 2 mins and analysed 1 result Ive been here 3 yrs and seen hundreds of graphs from jabba Then compared same results with other rolling roads they have been on, to always find jabba are the most giving

Its 'well known' around the vag forums that jabba are optimistic with their results.

When a manufacturer specifies a certain max airflow limit from their product, ie as in the K04 turbo and a rolling road 'measures' over this, who do you think is at fault?

I am an ex jabba customer, and was very very happy with their remap, so im not slagging off their product

But i dont believe everything that im told either

All cars are different, your car is new so its obviously tight, but when you have lots and lots of evidence for 1 particular car (LCR) and compare their results vs other results, its not rocket science at the end of the day.

Like i said, 1 chap got ''302bhp'' from a K04 turbo on jabbas rollers

If you had experience and knew anything about the turbo, you would know that this is a fairytale result.

 

[DPJ]

Hi Sparky,

Congrats on the re-map mate, don't listen to these guys saying that jabba tell "porkies" on there figures and that they are way above what the car is actually running, on the internet jabba quote for my car 186-196 bhp and they only managed to get 176bhp this was due to the car being very new and only having a few thousand miles on the clock they also rr'd it 145bhp before the map which was due to my super air intake modifying skills so my question to the people that have said that there figures are optomistic how comes my car was higher than standard but didnt achive the figures they quoted on there website?? don't get me wrong i'm not saying that all rollers will read the same but who is to say that the other rollers aren't reading to low?? i think for people to sit there and say the figures are to high is ridiculous because the truth is no-one really know's.

sorry to the people that were congatulating mark that you had to read that just think there is no need for it, next time you think of slagging off someones figures just think, do i really need to say this?? or should i just say well done??


See you soon mate!!

I also believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, Free Love and everything Tony Blair says.

 

[RobM]

If you had experience and knew anything about the turbo, you would know that this is a fairytale result.

Now now Mitchy, you should know that somebody who comes on a forum and says things that people want to hear is always more right than somebody who uses stupid stuff like experience, knowledge and common sense in their replies.

If you can't say anything nice.....

 

[stewbie55]

Through experience and common sense is the answer to that You've been here 2 mins and analysed 1 result Ive been here 3 yrs and seen hundreds of graphs from jabba Then compared same results with other rolling roads they have been on, to always find jabba are the most giving

Its 'well known' around the vag forums that jabba are optimistic with their results.

When a manufacturer specifies a certain max airflow limit from their product, ie as in the K04 turbo and a rolling road 'measures' over this, who do you think is at fault?

I am an ex jabba customer, and was very very happy with their remap, so im not slagging off their product

But i dont believe everything that im told either

All cars are different, your car is new so its obviously tight, but when you have lots and lots of evidence for 1 particular car (LCR) and compare their results vs other results, its not rocket science at the end of the day.

Like i said, 1 chap got ''302bhp'' from a K04 turbo on jabbas rollers

If you had experience and knew anything about the turbo, you would know that this is a fairytale result.

Surely it's an oversimplification to relate max BHP to max flow rate from a particular turbo as it MUST depend on what engine and transmission it is connected to, not to mention Fuel and air density etc.

For example if my transmission had zero loss then I would record better figures than someone with 20BHP transmission losses (unless the rollimg road can calibrate this exactly). If the frictional losses were also less in the engine (BP claim BP ultimate does this!) then again more BHP. What about if the A/C is switched off (this looses power too), I could go on....

 

[RobM]

For example if my transmission had zero loss then I would record better figures than someone with 20BHP transmission losses (unless the rollimg road can calibrate this exactly). If the frictional losses were also less in the engine (BP claim BP ultimate does this!) then again more BHP. What about if the A/C is switched off (this looses power too), I could go on....

You're right... if we were comparing two different models of cars. But we're comparing an LC to other LC's that have been down this route many times before. So all the things you mention don't equate to that much more power than other cars that are the same. Plus, ALL cars have transmission losses, so that ones a non-starter!

 

[HarveyGTI]

I do have to agree though, Jabbas and Stealth's rollers are some what optimistic...but then thats great, cos it makes my car sound REALLY fast, and all of you are wrong I tell you

 

[traumapat]

i dont get the max flow rate argument? when tuning, your tweaking boost but thats not the only factor you use to change/increase the powerband. then theres engine condition. boost isnt the only variable.



a true custom map suited to an individual engine is always going to do better than a generic one. whats generic for the lcr? 260? give custom map a 5% gain on a very good engine and youve got your figure.

jabba have never run my ko3s over 1 bar to get 242 with just a sports cat. so its not just flow rates. ive twice seen people leave there with just ok results dyno wise

im over the moon to have a jabba 320bhp dynoplot, but it wont be 320 next time even on the same rollers. too many variables. so its a guide only


if jabbas rollers are generous wouldnt everyone get great figures?

 

[stew]

no matter whats said,cars going to be over 260 bhp with the 42 bhp increase which is still a good map.
the tuners cant win if rollers under read people complain expecting more power.