Revo Stage 2 GPF on a FWD 290 anyone had it done that can give me an honest review?

[queen]

Thanks guys.
Probably next year I'll go stage 3 and fit an LM500 or similar so I'll have to find a way to control boost and be able to floor it without breaking traction all the way up to 3rd gear
I will consider the jb4 then although I'll probably fit a boost controller with more features (i.e. boost by gear, by rpm, multiple boost maps etc).

 

[Stefan147]

Can anyone with a Stg2 opf Revo share his experience from a trackday or generally (very) spirited driving?

I took the car to the track for the first time since it was mapped and I feel like that vaq can either not cope with the extra power or it doesn't work at all. Can it be that the remap has sent the diff out of its working terms?

 

[Slickric21]

Got a bit of an update on this from my end with my Cupra R ST.
I finally got round to fitting the Revo boost pipes (already had the Intercooler and intake) and was already running Revo Stage 1 as mentioned earlier.

Soooooo I thought why but just pay the small upgrade and go Revo Stage 2 GPF which I did !!!

Car made 386hp and 600nm (although they told me the torque figure was too high and couldn’t explain it…. Which makes me very suspicious of the whole thing)

Initial impressions are the car drives MUCH better than Stage 1, the torque and power comes on so much earlier and just feels nicer, you don’t have to chase revs to feel like you are going faster and overtaking seems much more effortless.

However…….. when it came to dragy testing and things aren’t looking so good.
Now I did need to do more tests as I think I might have had a problem/bug with my dragy (terminal speeds is blank on my 1/4mile run for some reason and the 0-60 on it is different to the standalone 0-60 that was recorded for the same run)
But….. this is that I have found.

Car is similar 0-60 vs stage 1
Car is slower 1/4 mile and 100-200 vs stage 1

Here’s a nutshell of my cars performance

ABT (with Intake & Intercooler)
0-60 = Best 3.95, most however in 4.1 range
1/4 mile = 12.43 @ 110.48mph
100-200 = 11.55

Revo stage 1 (intake & intercooler)
0-60 = Best 3.7, most in 3.8 range
1/4 mile = Best 11.9 @ 114.07 (most others around ~12.0x range however)
100-200 = Best 10.63 (most 11.0x)

Revo stage 2 (intake & intercooler & pipes)
0.60 = 3:8
1/4mile = 12.2 @ ??? Speeds was blank.
100-200 = 11.50 (x2 runs both same)

Same stretch of road used for all, and usually on 1-2 bar of fuel, but the Stage 2 tests I had 3 bars of fuel so a tad more weight.
Dry all tests.
ABT ambient temps were 19’c
Stage 1 were 20’c
Stage 2 were 14’c (so in theory better)
Wind 3-6mph tailwinds (ish) in all.

Now I’ve only done 2 runs at stage 2 but as you can see car is slower and actually even slower than the ABT tune 100-200 !!!
However more testing required as I said I don’t know it my draggy messed up.
Also I’ve just been letting the car shift gears at redline in S mode and did with all the tests, but there is a possibility my car is more powerful, but the power is lower in rev range now so need to change gears manually to make most of the stage 2 power.

DSG has the same tune for all the above tests, it’s a custom tune that has increased clamping, remove torque limiter and faster shifts, but retained stock shift points

 

[Stefan147]

I'm Revo stg2 for more than a year now but I just recently added a DO88 intercooler due to a minor crash. Up to now all supporting mods were a pickey R600 (k&n, turbo muffler delete etc) and some DO88 boost, throttle etc pipes. Stock exhaust.

So, before the intercooler the car (gpf 290 dsg hatchback) could never beat the 10" mark for the 100-200kmh. Best time ever was a 10.01" according to Dragy.

A couple of weeks ago and with the DO88 intercooler the car easily did a 9.85" with an air temperature of over 30 degrees celcius (tupical July night in Greece).

So even if it's an ST we're talking about, 11+" is not acceptable for a Revo stg2.

 

[Butty]

Got a bit of an update on this from my end with my Cupra R ST.
I finally got round to fitting the Revo boost pipes (already had the Intercooler and intake) and was already running Revo Stage 1 as mentioned earlier.

Soooooo I thought why but just pay the small upgrade and go Revo Stage 2 GPF which I did !!!

Car made 386hp and 600nm (although they told me the torque figure was too high and couldn’t explain it…. Which makes me very suspicious of the whole thing)

Initial impressions are the car drives MUCH better than Stage 1, the torque and power comes on so much earlier and just feels nicer, you don’t have to chase revs to feel like you are going faster and overtaking seems much more effortless.

However…….. when it came to dragy testing and things aren’t looking so good.
Now I did need to do more tests as I think I might have had a problem/bug with my dragy (terminal speeds is blank on my 1/4mile run for some reason and the 0-60 on it is different to the standalone 0-60 that was recorded for the same run)
But….. this is that I have found.

Car is similar 0-60 vs stage 1
Car is slower 1/4 mile and 100-200 vs stage 1

Here’s a nutshell of my cars performance

ABT (with Intake & Intercooler)
0-60 = Best 3.95, most however in 4.1 range
1/4 mile = 12.43 @ 110.48mph
100-200 = 11.55

Revo stage 1 (intake & intercooler)
0-60 = Best 3.7, most in 3.8 range
1/4 mile = Best 11.9 @ 114.07 (most others around ~12.0x range however)
100-200 = Best 10.63 (most 11.0x)

Revo stage 2 (intake & intercooler & pipes)
0.60 = 3:8
1/4mile = 12.2 @ ??? Speeds was blank.
100-200 = 11.50 (x2 runs both same)

Same stretch of road used for all, and usually on 1-2 bar of fuel, but the Stage 2 tests I had 3 bars of fuel so a tad more weight.
Dry all tests.
ABT ambient temps were 19’c
Stage 1 were 20’c
Stage 2 were 14’c (so in theory better)
Wind 3-6mph tailwinds (ish) in all.

Now I’ve only done 2 runs at stage 2 but as you can see car is slower and actually even slower than the ABT tune 100-200 !!!
However more testing required as I said I don’t know it my draggy messed up.
Also I’ve just been letting the car shift gears at redline in S mode and did with all the tests, but there is a possibility my car is more powerful, but the power is lower in rev range now so need to change gears manually to make most of the stage 2 power.

DSG has the same tune for all the above tests, it’s a custom tune that has increased clamping, remove torque limiter and faster shifts, but retained stock shift points

Having a Stage 1 on an 280ST, I can't imagine the torque coming in earlier and more of it. I'd be buying new tyres every month. Possibly there is more loss of traction in the 0-60 dash that is losing you time thereafter?

 

[Slickric21]

I'm Revo stg2 for more than a year now but I just recently added a DO88 intercooler due to a minor crash. Up to now all supporting mods were a pickey R600 (k&n, turbo muffler delete etc) and some DO88 boost, throttle etc pipes. Stock exhaust.

So, before the intercooler the car (gpf 290 dsg hatchback) could never beat the 10" mark for the 100-200kmh. Best time ever was a 10.01" according to Dragy.

A couple of weeks ago and with the DO88 intercooler the car easily did a 9.85" with an air temperature of over 30 degrees celcius (tupical July night in Greece).

So even if it's an ST we're talking about, 11+" is not acceptable for a Revo stg2.

Yeah I know.
Something isn’t quite adding up at the moment.
I’m very suspicious of my dyno graph, I suspect the tuner has somehow ‘tweaked it’ to get the 386bhp figure to be within claimed range, and that is why the torque figure is so high …. Impossibly high even at 600nm.

As I said in my other post, the car is now about the same speed 100-200 as when it had the ABT tuning box which was circa 345bhp, in the 11.50 region.
With Revo stage 1 it was mid 10’s.

The only explanations I can think are as follows..
1) Car is making claimed power, but it’s lower down in the rev range so gear changes can’t be left until redline and I’ll have to change manually earlier to benefit.

2) Because car runs higher boost than stage 1 (1.8 vs 1.6) it gets hotter quickly, so initially it has more power but then power drops more quickly due to temps.

I’m just waiting till I get down to 1/4 tank fuel or less and will try some more runs.

In the meantime I’ve done some logging with VCDS.
I’ve noticed that on a 3rd gear pull from about 2k rpm until redline, in manual, the car is pulling timing on one cylinder to -3.
It varies which cylinder each time I do it, but one seems to always pull about -3 during a 3rd gear pull.

It pulls zero timing if the gearbox is just left in auto mode to shift itself when it wants.

Don’t know if this is relevant info or not tbh.

Ive also used VCDS to log torque at the transmission and that maxes out at 500nm everytime.
Again I don’t know if this is relevant or that is the actual torque, or if the gearbox just thinks it’s that amount when in fact it’s more.

I’ve contacted Revo about the 30 day money back scheme and they haven’t been helpful at all.

 

[Butty]

27% maximum power loss to wheels on a FWD. Is that expected on a Dastek? Have you used the same RR before for Stage 1?

 

[Slickric21]

27% maximum power loss to wheels on a FWD. Is that expected on a Dastek? Have you used the same RR before for Stage 1?

I’ll be honest I’m not that clued up on all the dyno stuff.

Obviously my car being AWD I was kind of expecting 24% loss, but 37% loss WHP to Engine is quite excessive.

The car wasn’t dyno’d before whilst it was stage 1 which is a shame, it was just road tested and logged when it was installed.

Id imagine the place I had the Revo Stage 2 GPF installed they dyno’d it, saw it only made 350hp ish…. Then applied some sort of corrections to the dyno to make it look like it’s made the power within the claimed stage 2 370-400bhp power range so they could take my money.

 

[queen]

I’ll be honest I’m not that clued up on all the dyno stuff.

Obviously my car being AWD I was kind of expecting 24% loss, but 37% loss WHP to Engine is quite excessive.

The car wasn’t dyno’d before whilst it was stage 1 which is a shame, it was just road tested and logged when it was installed.

Id imagine the place I had the Revo Stage 2 GPF installed they dyno’d it, saw it only made 350hp ish…. Then applied some sort of corrections to the dyno to make it look like it’s made the power within the claimed stage 2 370-400bhp power range so they could take my money.

Even mine isn't making 600Nm and it's stage 3!!

I wouldn't trust this dyno, first never heard it before, second torque is on free-fall after 4500 rpm (it should start falling but certainly not by that much), third I assume your rpm limiter isn't at 6400 rpm where they ended the dyno, fourth wtf warranted the 100% c.f.?

Best dyno imho is the maha msr 500 which I'm pretty sure you have in the UK don't know if you could find one near you, then there're other reputable dynos like dyno dynamics, dynojet, mustang etc.

Modern AWD have ~18% loss.

What I'd do is go to another dyno, tell them I just bought the car and want to see what is makes, road test it a bit more, if I'm not satisfied I'd ask my money back from Revo like you said you've done.

 

[Butty]

The Dastek is quite a rare dyno in the UK but has some very good characteristics to it. All dynos are only as good as their operators though.
Do you have access to an SPS switch so that you can try another dyno, switch the Revo map to std then to stage 2 for a comparision?

 

[Slickric21]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
I kind of knew the Stage 2 Revo GPF was a gamble after reading this thread in the past.
I have since been in touch with Revo Support and ho have actually been very helpful and have spoken to the dealer on my behalf and I’m going to have it refunded and flashed back to Stage 1.

Next steps will probably be a full custom tune by a reputable VAG tuner, although I’m VERY tempted by a full TVS ECU & TCU which is like a semi custom tune done on a dyno.

Just for interest i made some logs the other day of various parameters in OBD11 (timing retardation, timing adjustement, boost requested & actual, torque requested and actual - no idea how accurate this is)

0-120mph pull auto gearbox (Boost pressure & RPM)
https://datazap.me/u/slickric21/0-120mph-pull-auto-gearbox-boost-pressure-rpm?log=0&data=

0-120mph pull auto gearbox (Torque & intake temps)

datazap.me | slickric21 | 0-120 pull auto gearbox (torque & intake temps)

datazap.me

This one is very intersting. If you look at boost value and overlay rpm (add the both then click the rpm line to adjust scale) Look how boost tapers down rapidly in 5th gear to 1bar. Does this explain the slow top end speeds ?
No idea what boost levels were like before in 5th gear at high revs/speeds tbh ?

Manual 3rd gear pull- 2.5k RPM to redline

datazap.me | slickric21 | Manual 3rd gear pull- 2.5k RPM to redline

datazap.me

Note the -3 timing being pulled on one cylinder on this one. Seems to do it randomly on cyl 1 or 2 briefly when doing a manual 3rd gear pull.
Dont know if its an issue or not ?
Doesnt do it when gearbox left in auto mode as seen in the other logs

I wouldn't trust this dyno, first never heard it before, second torque is on free-fall after 4500 rpm (it should start falling but certainly not by that much), third I assume your rpm limiter isn't at 6400 rpm where they ended the dyno, fourth wtf warranted the 100% c.f.?

Best dyno imho is the maha msr 500 which I'm pretty sure you have in the UK don't know if you could find one near you, then there're other reputable dynos like dyno dynamics, dynojet, mustang etc.

Modern AWD have ~18% loss.

What I'd do is go to another dyno, tell them I just bought the car and want to see what is makes, road test it a bit more, if I'm not satisfied I'd ask my money back from Revo like you said you've done.

Yeah I agree with what you have said mostly, a lot of stuff in that dyno printout that can’t be explained.

re the Torque Curve and the drop off, that kind of explains exactly how it drives.
It feels lovely low down, loads more responsive than the Revo stage 1, but as the Dragy testing has shown… top end slower.
Why power top end is lower idk however, some limiting factor somewhere temp wise I’d imagine.

 

[queen]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
I kind of knew the Stage 2 Revo GPF was a gamble after reading this thread in the past.
I have since been in touch with Revo Support and ho have actually been very helpful and have spoken to the dealer on my behalf and I’m going to have it refunded and flashed back to Stage 1.

Next steps will probably be a full custom tune by a reputable VAG tuner, although I’m VERY tempted by a full TVS ECU & TCU which is like a semi custom tune done on a dyno.

Glad to hear that Revo honored their 30 day money back guarantee!
Will you fit an exhaust with GPF delete too and go for a proper stage 2 or stay with stage 1(+)?

 

[Slickric21]

I’ll be keeping the GPF to keep it road legal, and then able to return to stock easily when sale time comes round.