Smoke when warm

[ArmzFR150]

Hi guys I have a feeling I'm gonna have to spend a lot of cash on my Leon FR PD150 soon.

Within the last week it's started plooming out white smoke when warm at idle and at low revs when pootling along or when stationary and pulling out of a junction.

This has been getting worse and worse over the last week and today it's really gotten bad.

As it's white smoke I'm presuming it's a leaky injector or just knackered injectors in general? Car has done 127k. No smoke when booting or using the turbo but seems to be getting worse.

Since I've had it I've done all filters an fitted a panel filter, changed the oil loads of times till I was happy with how clean it was, replaced the cam belt and water pump etc etc so all that is spot on as is valve timing and therefore injection timing.

Also have an Allard EGR delete and SFS boost hoses. And "blacksmoke" 182bhp map.

Anything else it could be?

Anyone changed injectors on one of these (I that's the fault) and know a rough price?

I'm a mechanic so will be doing the work myself.

Cheers. Pete.

 

[BenG]

Any chance it could be injector seals? My PD puffs out white smoke for a few sec when cold - I understand if the seals are leaking it could allow oil into the cylinders. Does not smoke when warm though.

Could you get the injectors out and get them tested and ultrasonically cleaned, if necessary, as this might be cheaper than new injectors? Could replace the seals as a precaution at the same time.

Alternatively, try a concentrated injector cleaner or the Terraclean process first before taking the injectors out?

Not sure of cost of new injectors but there are various ads on eBay for around £60-80 each, probably mostly secondhand though.

 

[ArmzFR150]

It's had Forte injector / diesel treatment through it as well as redex several times since I've owned it. Actually had another dose of the forte stuff in there when it it's started smoking about a week ago.

I can get them reconditioned yeh but will cost an arm and leg was gonna get a price today but been to busy doing a clutch job amongst other things.

Have seen there's lots on eBay but nearly all seem to be from 130bhp models no sure if their the same or not?

 

[BenG]

Best to just get the injectors tested first, and maybe cleaned and re-tested if the spray pattern's off. At least then you can rule them out as the problem and avoid spending on new ones.

Not sure if PD130 injectors are the same as the PD150 ones. AFAIK the main differences between the engines are the turbo, FMIC and ECU and not a lot else, but I couldn't say so for sure.

Maybe contact Dave at SERE Motors for an indicative price? He's usually pretty reasonably priced and should be able to tell you if the two engines require different injector types.

 

[Adam4D]

fine when cold worse when warm. I'd be suspecting the turbo exhaust side oil seal

 

[ArmzFR150]

I'm beginning to think that however I had the down pipe off yesterday and it's not full of oil or spurting oil everywhere out the exhaust.

Would also be blue smoke not white if that was the case?

 

[ArmzFR150]

Also it does it while under little load at low speed and pulling away and clears when booting it using the turbo.
Engine oil pressure will be higher when booting and the turbo will be under more stress

I'd prefer it to be turbo as is cheaper and easier to replace lol.

 

[ArmzFR150]

Ok so just went for a blat and it's now turned rather blue smoke instead of white.

Gonna do a compression test tomorrow at work if I get time then if all looks good will be getting a new turbo.

Thinking of going for a hybrid with PD170 internals as there's a guy on my mates Skoda forum that does them cheap and has very good reviews. Capable of 210bhp safely.

Have to start with turbo and see if it still white smokes in which case gotta fork out for injectors too also I need a clutch as it's slipped since the day it's been mapped

Waaaaaaa lol

 

[Adam4D]

This may sound totally strange

But have you started using diesel from a different brand?

I was desperate for fuel the other day and put £20 in and omg my car was sending out blue smoke signals to Indians from starting the car.

Drove a tenners out and whacked another £20 of shell derv in and it went away

 

[ArmzFR150]

Funny you say that but it started the baaaaaad white smoke Friday before last as soon as I filled up at shell and did it all the way to north wales 250miles away.

I then put in £20 at BP up there and it was then fine all the way home. I thought it was dodgy fuel but then on the same tank I drove to Brighton to get some car parts last Tuesday and it started white and blue smoking when I got there.

Since then I put in another £20 from a different garage and it has only got worse.

Re filled the tank last night with another £55 from Esso and it's got worse and worse now turned blue as anything. Took a vid just now not sure if I can upload on here?

Have tried vids on photobucket to forums before and the links don't seem to work.


I've got a new fuel filter I was gonna fit in case it had wen dodgy diesel so will throw that in at lunch tomorrow.

Te filter that's on it is only 6 months old though.

 

[Adam4D]

I'm on a strict diet of shell regular diesel now, plus it's on the way home lol

Try get a vid up or a YouTube link

I know mine sometimes smokes when starting up but I think mines down to the valve stem seals leaking as I had the head
off etc reground the valves but didn't change the seals as it was a budget repair as it's my car haha

 

[ArmzFR150]

Lol mine wasn't massively smoky, little bit of blue if you have to put your foot down when cold which I've always put down to old turbo but fine when warm.

I usually stick shell in as much as I can.

Force of habit as my other car is a Supercharged 306 Gti-6 running 260bhp which is mapped for high octane fuel so it always gets Vpower.

 

[Adam4D]

Yup same story here I got a Renault 5 turbo that lives on Vpower

Blueish Smoke from cold pulling away can be the injectors, you can tune it out so it's minimal tho

 

[ArmzFR150]

I need to look into setting up and gapping the injectors properly anyway. I've done turbos and tandem pumps on vag PD engines before but never injectors.
I was trained on mitsubishi's to master tec level but now work for peugeot Citroen independent so VAG isn't my speciality though we do get all sorts in including a fair amount of vag stuff.

 

[Adam4D]

Dti the follower, adjust injector stop to 180 or 225degrees, torque the lock nut to 30nm iirc

 

[ArmzFR150]

Sounds fun, lol

I've got prices on turbos and they ain't cheap... Trade price from factors to me is £550-650 for a brand new one which isn't even a garrett so pattern one. Or recon ones for £100 less. Much better off going for a hybrid I think.

However I've spoken to a diesel specialist I know and he's reeled off tonnes of reasons and things to check injector wise including looking at live data of injection quantity etc.

The injectors themselves he said Bosch ones they don't recon only brand new, and £240-350 each one.... Or if it's a Siemens system then he said you'll have to sell up anything you've got to afford those.

Injectors also come Loose in the head causing similar symptoms and of corse the well known camshaft wear.

Checked the cam when I did the timing belt and it was pristine but that was some months ago now.

 

[Adam4D]

You can pick up an exchange pd150 for much less from turbo dynamics.

Injectors are bosch, try new seals as they go hard but you need to replace every bolt are they are all stretch bolts.

Ensure you oil meets these grades

Vw 50501, vw 50601 or vw 50700 anything else isn't suitable for pd engines

 

[glynnd]

Sounds like turbo to me.
Injector seals, I ran my PD 150 cupra to 170k, it never needed injector seals!

 

[ArmzFR150]

Oil is 5w40 fully synthetic Morris Lubricants as I get it free . Exactly what we were supplied for use in 2.0PD engines at Mitsubishi.

This eve I changed the fuel filter and ran till warm

there was hardly any blue smoke but back to tonnes and tonnes of white smoke again.

Plugged it in and viewed all live data I can and nothing sticks out massively but bend referred to someone with more in depth diag computer so if I get time I'll pop in tomorrow or Friday.

Will also remove rocker cover to check camshaft again and make and model number of injectors.

 

[Adam4D]

If you can get access to vagcom I can look through the logs for you.