Standard power from a 210?

[Andy266]

recently had my 210 remapped by Jabba, their plot says original power was 222 bhp, which surely is a bit more than just accounting for individual car differnces? new power plot shows 266bhp.

Anyone had problems with a jabba map?

 

[Fl@pper]

seen a history of under rated bhp listings - theres a few 150bhp 16v's showing 165 on the road

if your on teh same rolling road then as long as your start and end figures are ok then theres no problems - looks like about 44bhp to me

 

[Andy266]

Guess I got one of the top end, standard cars then. It definately goes shed loads quicker so I am not complaining.
MPG down/spirits UP!

 

[luke]

recently had my 210 remapped by Jabba, their plot says original power was 222 bhp, which surely is a bit more than just accounting for individual car differnces?

My standard 210 made 221 bhp at AMD before remap.

 

[Andy266]

So its not just mine? perhaps SEAT were under quoting ?

 

[BHP Addict]

Not had mine done yet, would cai and forge 007p make any difference to figs if get done now???

 

[Spanky]

So its not just mine? perhaps SEAT were under quoting ?

Rumour was they did under-quote to have (on paper) less power than the Audi 225 engines at that time.

 

[Mitchy]

218bhp at 1 rolling road, then 222bhp at another!

Jabba and JBS

 

[Feel]

Rumour was they did under-quote to have (on paper) less power than the Audi 225 engines at that time.

Although, they did quote exactly the same power as the same engine code in the S3, and the previous APY (? or was it X). Then when the LCR got the BAM (225) engine, they quoted 225 which was the same as the BAM engine in the TT had always been quoted at.

So the "dumbing down" theory is pants then.

More likely the 210 engine makes 210 (dependant on what fuel that was meaured on (there's another variable) and the rollers read slightly high.

The manufacturers probably don't use a rolling road, but a bench dyno - which is more accurate at measuring crank figures.

 

[Spanky]

Although, they did quote exactly the same power as the same engine code in the S3, and the previous APY (? or was it X). Then when the LCR got the BAM (225) engine, they quoted 225 which was the same as the BAM engine in the TT had always been quoted at.

So the "dumbing down" theory is pants then.

More likely the 210 engine makes 210 (dependant on what fuel that was meaured on (there's another variable) and the rollers read slightly high.

The manufacturers probably don't use a rolling road, but a bench dyno - which is more accurate at measuring crank figures.

I have seen alot of 210's making much more power than that.... so its either pants, or SEAT just make a 'stab in the dark' guess at power figures.

 

[bigjode]

i Thought the S3 was 210 when the LCR was 210, then they both went 225 @ about the same time?

 

[Feel]

I have seen alot of 210's making much more power than that.... so its either pants, or SEAT just make a 'stab in the dark' guess at power figures.

Yeah, I've seen a standard one make 239 bhp at a rolling road. I didn't beleive that either, but it's an interesting gauge at to how accurate a particular set of rollers are, on a particular day.

Be sensible, do you really think that VAG just guess what their power outputs are, yet some small tuning house has a more accurate/precise/repeatable rolling road? That's laughable.

 

[CupraR-Rog]

Mine made 230bhp & Jabba before I had it mapped... did have turbo back exhaust on it tho...

I always thought the difference in the power figures was down to the way in which VAG measured the power figures of the engines, with the VAG measurements being taken after a duration of full-load running at an ambient temperature of 40 degrees and an atmospheric pressure similar to being at the top of a mountain, i.e. worst than the worst case scenario that the car is likely to be used in, therefore being an indication that in, for instance a 210LCR, you shouldn't get any less than 210bhp?

 

[Spanky]

Yeah, I've seen a standard one make 239 bhp at a rolling road. I didn't beleive that either, but it's an interesting gauge at to how accurate a particular set of rollers are, on a particular day.

Be sensible, do you really think that VAG just guess what their power outputs are, yet some small tuning house has a more accurate/precise/repeatable rolling road? That's laughable.

I wasn't being serious that they do actually guess, but you see so many VAG cars, Golf GTI's, Leons, Ibiza's, petrol or diesel and on various rolling roads all over the country they have a reasonable amount more BHP than what the manufacturers state, looking at that, manufacturers figure does look a bit ball park.

 

[Feel]

OR the rolling roads are ball park, and the manufacturer's figures are spot on...

That was my point. There's lots of reasons why a manufacturer would be accurate with their figure and a rolling road would be inaccurate/over-read. Think about it.

 

[Ruddmeister]

OR the rolling roads are ball park, and the manufacturer's figures are spot on...

That was my point. There's lots of reasons why a manufacturer would be accurate with their figure and a rolling road would be inaccurate/over-read. Think about it.

Yes it's something that doesn;t get mentioned much on here but a lot of LCR figures showing 270bhp were showing 240ish as standard. Although in fairness it was on one major tuners advertising literature if you read it properly....

So we are actually seeing a remap make 30bhp ish rather than 50bhp extra.

So if you believe the manufacturer and the +30bhp then these LCR's put out around 250bhp not 270bhp.........

(Blue touch paper ignited)

 

[luke]

Be sensible, do you really think that VAG just guess what their power outputs are, yet some small tuning house has a more accurate/precise/repeatable rolling road? That's laughable.

Why? There are loads of cars that don't make near what they are rated by the manufacturer at.

 

[bigjode]

Manufacturers don't dyno every single engine, so there will be some fluctuations.

BUT RR's ARE NOT ACCURATE AT ALL! do a run, pump up your tyres by 10psi, instant 10bhp more. Thats a true story - happened in my focus, which was only 145bhp. thats apx 7.5% more power from tyre pressures.

Also bearing in mind RR's calculate power at the wheels, then calculate a fly wheel figure from that, its not going to be accurate for flywheel figures. I've seen RR's show 30% transmission losses on FWD drives - thats totally wrong, unless the car is driving on 50" wheels!!

 

[Spanky]

OR the rolling roads are ball park, and the manufacturer's figures are spot on...

That was my point. There's lots of reasons why a manufacturer would be accurate with their figure and a rolling road would be inaccurate/over-read. Think about it.

Fair point indeed, so other than tuning on the fly, there aint much point going on a rolling road, power runs aint cheap, especially considering the figure don't really mean much.

 

[Ruddmeister]

Fair point indeed, so other than tuning on the fly, there aint much point going on a rolling road, power runs aint cheap, especially considering the figure don't really mean much.

I go to SCn rolling road days to meet people and have the Craic, also handy for picking up faults / issues with your car (boost leaks, MAF's etc etc) looking under the bonnet while the car is on full load is difficult otherwise