Still awesome - Cupra on track again at Oulton

[SteA]

Excepting the person spilling oil on the track during sighting laps, leading to a three hour + closure Oulton was awesome today. The brother in law came with me and shared driving, and although he drives like a complete lunatic in his Caterham, for some reason he drove like a concussed Miss Daisy for his first few sessions; cue lots of encouragement from me to get a grip and he got it together after that. The Cupra was epic as usual and it surprised lots of serious track cars, including having a good go at staying with a seriously track focused R26 on slicks; there were a few cars running around the same pace but nothing really that was noticeably faster.

Re the car itself and limiting factors. The RSL29 front pads were excellent, although I will see how they do in warmer weather and I can’t help thinking that the brakes lack decent cooling (or the callipers are limiting) and if I did longer sessions (>20 mins) they might still wilt. Oil temps were fine and stayed between 114 and 120, although I think a bigger FMIC will be needed at my power levels in summer. Even PS4S tyres aren’t up to the pasting these cars can give them on track and a decent semi slick would provide a dramatic increase in performance. I was also wondering about changes to the front suspension geometry, increase in camber maybe? I’m fairly sure I could go a fair bit faster on track too, but I do get a bit giddy having fun; at some point I need to focus and concentrate on being smoother and faster these cars really are quite spectacular on track.

My last session was almost transcendental, the sun was setting, the sky was stunning and most people had headed home so I was pretty much alone out there strangely peaceful and very cool. When I have time to go through the footage I will get some videos up...

First vid: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=213s&v=R_0TX6D4JJM

Second: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r101aT3CWbg

 

[BreadlyBrown]

How are the pads for everyday use? I need to change mine in the next few months and the stock ones really couldn't put up with 10 min sessions on track. Looking for something not totally unusable on road but certainly performance biased.

Interesting you say the PS4S are still not up to track work. I had the stock conti 5s at the time and they were pretty shocking so was hoping the Michelins would hold up better. As with the brakes I would be willing to move to a road legal semi slick as long as they aren't completely unuaseable on the road.

MK3 Leon ST Cupra 290 Black Edition

 

[Deleted member 103408]

Just out of interest do you turn off the ESC and do you turn off any of the other road safety functions.

Lastly have you made any changes to the XDS settings or change the LSD setup.

 

[SteA]

How are the pads for everyday use? I need to change mine in the next few months and the stock ones really couldn't put up with 10 min sessions on track. Looking for something not totally unusable on road but certainly performance biased.

Interesting you say the PS4S are still not up to track work. I had the stock conti 5s at the time and they were pretty shocking so was hoping the Michelins would hold up better. As with the brakes I would be willing to move to a road legal semi slick as long as they aren't completely unuaseable on the road.

MK3 Leon ST Cupra 290 Black Edition

Re pads and road use, it depends... performance wise, they are brilliant, even from cold in these temps they are very good, quite brutal in fact. This point may be the decider though, they are quite a serious pad, so there is some squeeking at slow speeds. I’ve not decided yet whether to leave them on all the time, I have a nearly new set of standard and a set of DS2500 pads sat in the garage, so may pop one of those on if I decide I don’t like the noise on the road. Interestingly the wife hasn’t mentioned the noise so it can’t be too bad they are fairly pricey pads too, about £360 if memory serves.

It would probably be more accurate for me to say that PS4S are up to track work, but with 375 bhp and pushing quite a bit, they are a limiting factor, so it depends on you really. They are good enough to stick to a variety of race cars on track tyres through the corners... the fronts just suffer a bit as my sessions progress.

 

[SteA]

Just out of interest do you turn off the ESC and do you turn off any of the other road safety functions.

Lastly have you made any changes to the XDS settings or change the LSD setup.

I switch everything off, these cars are very benign and hard to unsettle, try as I might. The Mk3 Cupra doesn’t have XDS... No, I’m pretty sure I haven’t changed anything with the LSD although I vaguely recall you can it works very well as it is.

 

[Deleted member 103408]

I switch everything off, these cars are very benign and hard to unsettle, try as I might. The Mk3 Cupra doesn’t have XDS... No, I’m pretty sure I haven’t changed anything with the LSD although I vaguely recall you can it works very well as it is.

great thanks. are you sure about the xds as i have seen lots of posts about turning it to strong for road use and off for track work

 

[SteA]

great thanks. are you sure about the xds as i have seen lots of posts about turning it to strong for road use and off for track work

You are right, these cars do have XDS (plus), which can influence yaw angle / turn in etc. Every day is a learning day having a read about it, I think I will leave mine on the factory setting for now, I really have no idea how much (in what sequence) it might work with all stability systems off and the VAQ diff...

 

[Deleted member 103408]

You are right, these cars do have XDS (plus), which can influence yaw angle / turn in etc. Every day is a learning day having a read about it, I think I will leave mine on the factory setting for now, I really have no idea how much (in what sequence) it might work with all stability systems off and the VAQ diff...

check out this thread https://drivetribe.com/p/performance-vcds-tweaks-Dky7b-PTQpqIwVFrasMoeA?iid=XHTM1udBT0OkTba651uKFA thanks to raflo83 0n this site

 

[SteA]

check out this thread https://drivetribe.com/p/performance-vcds-tweaks-Dky7b-PTQpqIwVFrasMoeA?iid=XHTM1udBT0OkTba651uKFA thanks to raflo83 0n this site

Thanks, I found that link last night, unfortunately it’s broken...

 

[Deleted member 103408]

this is what it says but no pics included

Truthfully, I'm pretty novice when it comes to recoding. It's a way to mess up stuff and if you don't save your work you could be pretty screwed. Moreover, it's difficult because the available recoding vary from model year to model year. Luckily, our community has a good number of resources. One of the most valueable -- Ryan Johnson. I had the opportunity to discuss some specific tweaks available to MK7 owners. If you own a performance pack car, you especially won't want to miss this one! We cover XDS adjustments, the PP diff adaptation, and briefly hint at a *possible* haldex hack.
What is XDS and XDS+?

From VW directly: "The XDS electronic differential lock is an extension of the familiar EDL function. However, XDS responds not to loss of traction but to the unloading of the front wheel on the inside of the corner when cornering fast. XDS applies pressure from the ESC hydraulics to the inside wheel to prevent it from spinning. This improves traction and reduces the tendency to understeer. The level of pressure applied ranges from approximately 5 to 15 bar. The impression when driving is similar to that of a limited-slip differential in toned-down form. The precise, one-sided build-up of brake pressure makes cornering even sportier, quicker and more accurate." - en.volkswagen.com/en/innovation-and-technology/technical-glossary/elektronische_differenzialsperrexds.html

For more information also check out: en.volkswagen.com/en/innovation-and-technology/technical-glossary/elektronisches_stabilisierungsprogramm.html

The main difference between XDS and XDS+ is the actuation of the front wheel only for the former, vs the front and rear for the latter. As you can imagine, XDS helps rotation, but at a cost of less driver control, and more brake use. On street it can be a life safer, by adjusting the car's yaw, as well as helping it to corner harder. On track it can be an unmanageable system you are fighting. Fortunately, we can adjust the intensity level of XDS (how much brake pressure is applied to the inside wheels) as well as disable it completely.
Modifying XDS

[Karl]: Diff or no diff, the XDS/XDS+ system also seems to be a hot topic. For a track (circuit) car, do you think the car would perform better with or without it? Besides adjusting the ESC button, do you know of any other XDS tweaks?

[RJ]: I like XDS+ for the streets, I hate it on the track, but that's my personal opinion as a track enthusiast. I disable the system completely when I'm on track tires as I have found that it makes for significantly slower lap times. But if you are on a road course with a non-track worthy tire, the XDS+ system can help create a little more rotation to "artificially" fight understeer. The same goes for a less experienced drivers too, with XDS+ and ESC on, it can make even a Novice Driver look like a hero on some less technical tracks as the system works pretty well and keep you in line if you are pushing the car at only 80% or so.

[Karl]: I 100% agree with this statement here. I can personally attest that learning the MK7 on track was a somewhat wild experience. Trail braking can get you quite a bit of yaw, yet the XDS system can really save your ass and make you look much better than you are. I've personally had people come up to me before telling me they thought I was going to spin, but XDS kept the car in check. In fact, I don't even think it always occurred to me how much rotation was happening. Nevertheless, I've come a long way since that first track day. So if you're adventurous, this might be a hack for you.

XDS Setting: Scale of 1 - 5: Not activiated, Weak, Standard, Medium, Strong.

[RJ]: You can turn the XDS+ system up via VAGCOM (label “TBD” below) and it feels cool at first, but it is VERY dangerous at high speeds. I personally know two people that have wrecked their MK7’s on off ramps because of this tweak. Leave it at the factory setting or turn it off would be my best suggestion. A couple other VAGCOM tweaks that remove the electrical nannies and really help the car feel more natural on a road course is to set the ABS long coding byte 29 to “08” (which removes ESC when you hold the button by the shifter for 5sec) and disabling the “straight ahead brake stabilization”. The stabilization setting is most noticeable at higher speeds, if you have ever felt your car tug back and fourth this is the system doing some weird stuff behind the scenes and it can make for a sketchy scenario with it on when you are deep in the triple digits.

Brake stabilization tweak.
The PP Diff Tweaks

[Karl]: I recently did an article about the PP diff which you pointed out has the potential for a lot of tuning. Have you made any headway yourself about tuning the PP diff? Do you mind sharing how you did it?

[RJ]: Great article! I just thought that comparing a track built MK7 *insert cheesy smile* with a mechanical diff to a minor bolt-on street focused MK7 PP with the VAQ diff was not quite a fair comparison. The VAQ diff is computer controlled and it's integrated into the ABS system through the BCAN, so in stock form on the PP GTI it isn't very performance focused like the exact same unit found in the GTI Clubsport S and Seat Cupra 280 is (both of which broke FWD Nurburgring records with this setup too). The good news is that with proper VAGCOM adjustment and coding, the diff/pump can be turned up at no cost and performs night and day differently to what you experienced on Brads car. You can take it a step further too and get an even more aggressive tune like the all Seat and VW cup racecars are running, I’m still looking to get my hands on one of these. I'd love for you to come and drive my car if you are ever on the east coast so you can see the difference as your car is setup much more similar to my own.

[RJ]: Here are the settings is the adaption I use and the diff clutches reset procedure:

Maximum attack.

Necessary Procedures
Possible Haldex Tweak

Previous generations of Haldex systems allowed for actual haldex controllers, like this HPA one: www.hpamotorsports.com/product_haldex.html However, it's been several years since the Mk7's release and nothing has hit the market. Even with VAGCOM, there's not a lot of data. I do have one unverified source, which supposedly increases the default coupling of the haldex.

Coding: Address 22 > AWD > adaptations > wiring logic > increase traction ... Try it, let me know!

Full Post: www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/663936-Haldex-Tune-Options/page3
Closing Remarks

Not a ton for me to add to this article! I'm really grateful our community has resources like the forums and members like Ryan. There's tons of other VAGCOM tweaks as well, but most of those are not performance related, and thus, not really in my wheelhouse. I tried to hit the "big three" in this article: XDS, Performance Pack Diff, and Haldex changes. Good luck and happy hacking!

 

[SteA]

this is what it says but no pics included

Truthfully, I'm pretty novice when it comes to recoding. It's a way to mess up stuff and if you don't save your work you could be pretty screwed. Moreover, it's difficult because the available recoding vary from model year to model year. Luckily, our community has a good number of resources. One of the most valueable -- Ryan Johnson. I had the opportunity to discuss some specific tweaks available to MK7 owners. If you own a performance pack car, you especially won't want to miss this one! We cover XDS adjustments, the PP diff adaptation, and briefly hint at a *possible* haldex hack.
What is XDS and XDS+?

From VW directly: "The XDS electronic differential lock is an extension of the familiar EDL function. However, XDS responds not to loss of traction but to the unloading of the front wheel on the inside of the corner when cornering fast. XDS applies pressure from the ESC hydraulics to the inside wheel to prevent it from spinning. This improves traction and reduces the tendency to understeer. The level of pressure applied ranges from approximately 5 to 15 bar. The impression when driving is similar to that of a limited-slip differential in toned-down form. The precise, one-sided build-up of brake pressure makes cornering even sportier, quicker and more accurate." - en.volkswagen.com/en/innovation-and-technology/technical-glossary/elektronische_differenzialsperrexds.html

For more information also check out: en.volkswagen.com/en/innovation-and-technology/technical-glossary/elektronisches_stabilisierungsprogramm.html

The main difference between XDS and XDS+ is the actuation of the front wheel only for the former, vs the front and rear for the latter. As you can imagine, XDS helps rotation, but at a cost of less driver control, and more brake use. On street it can be a life safer, by adjusting the car's yaw, as well as helping it to corner harder. On track it can be an unmanageable system you are fighting. Fortunately, we can adjust the intensity level of XDS (how much brake pressure is applied to the inside wheels) as well as disable it completely.
Modifying XDS

[Karl]: Diff or no diff, the XDS/XDS+ system also seems to be a hot topic. For a track (circuit) car, do you think the car would perform better with or without it? Besides adjusting the ESC button, do you know of any other XDS tweaks?

[RJ]: I like XDS+ for the streets, I hate it on the track, but that's my personal opinion as a track enthusiast. I disable the system completely when I'm on track tires as I have found that it makes for significantly slower lap times. But if you are on a road course with a non-track worthy tire, the XDS+ system can help create a little more rotation to "artificially" fight understeer. The same goes for a less experienced drivers too, with XDS+ and ESC on, it can make even a Novice Driver look like a hero on some less technical tracks as the system works pretty well and keep you in line if you are pushing the car at only 80% or so.

[Karl]: I 100% agree with this statement here. I can personally attest that learning the MK7 on track was a somewhat wild experience. Trail braking can get you quite a bit of yaw, yet the XDS system can really save your ass and make you look much better than you are. I've personally had people come up to me before telling me they thought I was going to spin, but XDS kept the car in check. In fact, I don't even think it always occurred to me how much rotation was happening. Nevertheless, I've come a long way since that first track day. So if you're adventurous, this might be a hack for you.

XDS Setting: Scale of 1 - 5: Not activiated, Weak, Standard, Medium, Strong.

[RJ]: You can turn the XDS+ system up via VAGCOM (label “TBD” below) and it feels cool at first, but it is VERY dangerous at high speeds. I personally know two people that have wrecked their MK7’s on off ramps because of this tweak. Leave it at the factory setting or turn it off would be my best suggestion. A couple other VAGCOM tweaks that remove the electrical nannies and really help the car feel more natural on a road course is to set the ABS long coding byte 29 to “08” (which removes ESC when you hold the button by the shifter for 5sec) and disabling the “straight ahead brake stabilization”. The stabilization setting is most noticeable at higher speeds, if you have ever felt your car tug back and fourth this is the system doing some weird stuff behind the scenes and it can make for a sketchy scenario with it on when you are deep in the triple digits.

Brake stabilization tweak.
The PP Diff Tweaks

[Karl]: I recently did an article about the PP diff which you pointed out has the potential for a lot of tuning. Have you made any headway yourself about tuning the PP diff? Do you mind sharing how you did it?

[RJ]: Great article! I just thought that comparing a track built MK7 *insert cheesy smile* with a mechanical diff to a minor bolt-on street focused MK7 PP with the VAQ diff was not quite a fair comparison. The VAQ diff is computer controlled and it's integrated into the ABS system through the BCAN, so in stock form on the PP GTI it isn't very performance focused like the exact same unit found in the GTI Clubsport S and Seat Cupra 280 is (both of which broke FWD Nurburgring records with this setup too). The good news is that with proper VAGCOM adjustment and coding, the diff/pump can be turned up at no cost and performs night and day differently to what you experienced on Brads car. You can take it a step further too and get an even more aggressive tune like the all Seat and VW cup racecars are running, I’m still looking to get my hands on one of these. I'd love for you to come and drive my car if you are ever on the east coast so you can see the difference as your car is setup much more similar to my own.

[RJ]: Here are the settings is the adaption I use and the diff clutches reset procedure:

Maximum attack.

Necessary Procedures
Possible Haldex Tweak

Previous generations of Haldex systems allowed for actual haldex controllers, like this HPA one: www.hpamotorsports.com/product_haldex.html However, it's been several years since the Mk7's release and nothing has hit the market. Even with VAGCOM, there's not a lot of data. I do have one unverified source, which supposedly increases the default coupling of the haldex.

Coding: Address 22 > AWD > adaptations > wiring logic > increase traction ... Try it, let me know!

Full Post: www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/663936-Haldex-Tune-Options/page3
Closing Remarks

Not a ton for me to add to this article! I'm really grateful our community has resources like the forums and members like Ryan. There's tons of other VAGCOM tweaks as well, but most of those are not performance related, and thus, not really in my wheelhouse. I tried to hit the "big three" in this article: XDS, Performance Pack Diff, and Haldex changes. Good luck and happy hacking!

I do now recall reading that in the past, I must have glossed over the XDS reference I think the take home messages for me were that our diff settings are already factory adjusted and that the Cupra doesn’t behave like the Golf. If I ever have access to a VCDS at a trackday then it would be nice to have a play with the settings. I really doubt though that much is slowing these cars down on track, except obviously my ham fisted driving

 

[Upthere]

Did you used to be big into nissan 200sx ? Your name looks familiar from SXOC

 

[SteA]

Did you used to be big into nissan 200sx ? Your name looks familiar from SXOC

Yes, I had several S14 and S14a’s and was one of the reps for many years a few of the original SXOC boys were with me at the trackday yesterday and I still see lots of them on a regular basis. I guess you do or did have a 200? it makes me wince to think how much effort we had to put in to get a “reliable” 400 bhp or more, with the Cupra, you are pretty much there with a remap

 

[Upthere]

Yes, I had several S14 and S14a’s and was one of the reps for many years a few of the original SXOC boys were with me at the trackday yesterday and I still see lots of them on a regular basis. I guess you do or did have a 200? it makes me wince to think how much effort we had to put in to get a “reliable” 400 bhp or more, with the Cupra, you are pretty much there with a remap

Yes I used to have an s13. Always worrying about the bottom end so reliable wasn't a word I used much haha. Head gasket went and I replaced the car with an ep3 type R.
Amazing how cars have come on from those days, doesn't seem that long ago.

Look forward to your vids

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[SteA]

First vid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=213s&v=R_0TX6D4JJM

 

[Signor Whippy]

Looks really good coming out of the corners, especially out of druids

 

[SteA]

Another vid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r101aT3CWbg