Stock Cupra vs. FR DSG stage 1?

[DSG-boy]

Anyone with experience which is fastest from a dig and from a roll?

From a dig i honestly dont think you stock-Cupraboys could keep up with a FR stage 1 and DSG, but i never tried so...


(Please don´t delete this thread, i think it´s a relevant question)

 

[Al]

Not sure why it is relevant, but what you should do it try and race a standard Cupra on a a 1/4 mile day.

As a reference post for you to try and beat, my Cupra as standard did a 14.31 @ 101.2mph at Crail.

All things considered, technically, a remapped FR with extra torque over a Cupra would be potentially quicker, but remember that Cupras are being tested at close on 260bhp as standard. A remap alone on an FR might only make 240bhp or 250bhp at most. My car made 257bhp and 242ft-lbs as standard and a MK5 Golf GTi right behind it on the same road on the same day with a Stage 2 Revo map, turbo back exhaust, air intake etc made 249bhp and 300ft-lbs of torque. For sure the Golf felt quicker, but on the road, there probably would not be much in it.

Also remember that the Cupra can remap to over 300bhp and at that point the remapped FR would be history.

 

[DSG-boy]

Not sure why it is relevant, but what you should do it try and race a standard Cupra on a a 1/4 mile day.

As a reference post for you to try and beat, my Cupra as standard did a 14.31 @ 101.2mph at Crail.

All things considered, technically, a remapped FR with extra torque over a Cupra would be potentially quicker, but remember that Cupras are being tested at close on 260bhp as standard. A remap alone on an FR might only make 240bhp or 250bhp at most. My car made 257bhp and 242ft-lbs as standard and a MK5 Golf GTi right behind it on the same road on the same day with a Stage 2 Revo map, turbo back exhaust, air intake etc made 249bhp and 300ft-lbs of torque. For sure the Golf felt quicker, but on the road, there probably would not be much in it.

Also remember that the Cupra can remap to over 300bhp and at that point the remapped FR would be history.

As you know the dsg is faster than the 6MT, so my question really was if a stock Cupra would get me from 0-60. Running in higher speeds the K04 would smoke me, i know that.

 

[Rob GTI]

Anyone with experience which is fastest from a dig and from a roll?

From a dig i honestly dont think you stock-Cupraboys could keep up with a FR stage 1 and DSG, but i never tried so...


(Please don´t delete this thread, i think it´s a relevant question)

Having driven both the standard cars, I reckon there wouldn't be much in hard in guage which is quicker. The DSG compensating for the Cupras extra shove over the last 1000rpm. So therefore I assume a remapped DSG would be quicker.

 

[Al]

DSG is not going to make an FR as quick as a Cupra. As quick as DSG can change gears, it does make up 40bhp doing so. In addition, how many times can you launch a DSG before the warranty on the gearbox becomes invalidated?

There was a clip somewhere that compared a MK5 Golf GTi vs a MK5 Golf GTi DSG, and although the DSG was a quicker timewise, it was not by much at all and that was using the launch control.

Glad I have a manual box as it makes it more involving.

 

[flakmunky]

DSG is not going to make an FR as quick as a Cupra. As quick as DSG can change gears, it does make up 40bhp doing so.

The OP was asking about a remapped FR DSG and a stock Cupra. Otherwise you are right an FR would get smoked...

In addition, how many times can you launch a DSG before the warranty on the gearbox becomes invalidated?

I haven't seen any evidence of VAG Group 'invalidating warranties'. If you know otherwise, please post links as many people would be worried about this. AFAIK there is no counter (according to VW mechanics on www.ukmkvs.net) in the ECU and the general consensus is that VAG Group would be on very sticky ground if they did. Why have it at all (even if undocumented - although apparantly it is in the ED30 manual) if it can invalidate your warranty?

Glad I have a manual box as it makes it more involving.

I used to be in your camp but realised what a PITA it is driving in the UK now a days. So I bought a DSG. On the days when I want 'more involvement' I use the manual mode... Have you tried a DSG?

I also made a similar comment to a friend who never bought manual cars and he turned round to me and said "You have an automatic washing machine, don't you?"

Which is difficult to argue with.

 

[Rob GTI]

DSG is not going to make an FR as quick as a Cupra. As quick as DSG can change gears, it does make up 40bhp doing so. In addition, how many times can you launch a DSG before the warranty on the gearbox becomes invalidated?

There was a clip somewhere that compared a MK5 Golf GTi vs a MK5 Golf GTi DSG, and although the DSG was a quicker timewise, it was not by much at all and that was using the launch control.

Glad I have a manual box as it makes it more involving.

Are you speaking from experience, because I am. Having driven both cars standard and theres little in it. So a remapped DSG would I guess have a definate advantage.

 

[Al]

Yeah I have driven DSG's, but no I havent had the chance to race any Leon other than Owens remapped Leon Cupra. Would love the chance to though.

I would be surprised if a mapped FR regardless of box was slower than a standard cupra, but similarly, I doubt it would be much faster either.

 

[Rob GTI]

Are you speaking from experience, because I am. Having driven both cars standard and theres little in it. So a remapped DSG would I guess have a definate advantage.

Although I have to concede that the Cupra would have an advantage at higher speeds as there is less gear changes needed but 1st, 2nd and 3rd its pretty even.

 

[Al]

Although I have to concede that the Cupra would have an advantage at higher speeds as there is less gear changes needed but 1st, 2nd and 3rd its pretty even.

On a mapped FR vs a standard Cupra?

 

[Rob GTI]

On a mapped FR vs a standard Cupra?

No on a standard DSG vs a standard Cupra.

 

[Poverty]

I would put my money on the remapped DSG FR.

 

[lasbazrre]

No on a standard DSG vs a standard Cupra.

Whats the 0-60 time on a DSG FR?

1st , 2nd , and maybe 3rd are the 0-60 time gears!

FR does 0-60 in 7.5 sec

Cupra does 0-60 in 6.4 sec , so unless the FR DSG 0-60 is over a second faster than the maual it's not as fast as a cupra in 1st , 2nd , and 3rd!

leon

 

[sportbilly]

Talking about the Golf but you get the idea...

"According to VW’s own performance figures opting for the DSG ’box also gets you a quicker 0-62mph sprint time (6.9 plays 7.2sec)"

I must say though a remapped FR drives completely different so could be on a par with a Std Cupra - would come down to conditions/drivers etc. Remap a Cupra and it goes back to what it woudl be like Std FR vs Std Cupra.

Who really cares, both are quick enough on todays roads.

 

[Al]

No on a standard DSG vs a standard Cupra.

No chance.

 

[Rob GTI]

No chance.

Well on that well rounded argument by you I have no come back. Oh go on then I have made my subjective conclusion on road tests of both vehicles and until you can give me objective results to prove otherwise then I remain to be convinced.

Besides this discussion is not what the orginal quesiton was about !!

 

[Ben CTR]

Who gives a fook about 0-60 these days anyway.. A Lotus Elise does 0-60 in less than 6 secs, but is on it's arse after 80mph.. 0-100mph is the one to look at IMO..
Either way, I doubt very very much that a DSG FR in standard form would keep up with a properly driven Cupra upto 80mph (or 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears).. No way..
Mapped FR v's Standard Cupra would be interesting, I have to say. But I think once the speeds get over 100mph, I would have my money on the Cupra. As it will be making it's power better at that range..

 

[Al]

Well on that well rounded argument by you I have no come back. Oh go on then I have made my subjective conclusion on road tests of both vehicles and until you can give me objective results to prove otherwise then I remain to be convinced.

Besides this discussion is not what the orginal quesiton was about !!

How do you propose a car with 40bhp (or 20%) less power than another identical car is going to be faster? Yes a DSG will change gears faster to the tune of 2/10ths of a second per gear at the absolute most. There is one gear change required from 0-60mph. The cupra is one full second faster to 60 than an FR. Take the 2/10ths of a second off the second slower time and hey presto, still 8/10ths of a second slower. On the off chance you need two changes, you are still 6/10ths of a second slower.

Now try 0-100mph. This needs 3 changes. Is there 6/10ths of a second difference between a Cupra and FR from 0-100mph? No. You are now even further ahead in the Cupra.

You are right about this not being what the original post was about, but had to say something when I saw someone say that they though a standard FR TFSi DSG would be as fast or faster than standard Cupra. In two words, no chance.

To be honest, even if the DSG box was available in the Cupra I would not have it as it is not my cup of tea. Yes I have driven a DSG, but as much as people want to say they can drive it in manual mode, it still changes up at high rpm for you and it still changes down if you go too slow.

For the amount of money DSG costs on an FR TFSi, you are looking Cupra money pretty much and with it superior brakes, uprated engine, bigger turbo etc etc but more importantly more power and no less mpg. Fair enough if you want or need an automatic, but dont kid yourself that the less powerful car is as fast or faster despite the magic gearbox. The Cupra would still be faster in accelaration and have a higher top speed than an FR DSG. Remap the FR, and that would most likely no longer be the case, but a standard Cupra would not be miles behind it

 

[Chris_Cupra]

How do you propose a car with 40bhp (or 20%) less power than another identical car is going to be faster? Yes a DSG will change gears faster to the tune of 2/10ths of a second per gear at the absolute most. There is one gear change required from 0-60mph. The cupra is one full second faster to 60 than an FR. Take the 2/10ths of a second off the second slower time and hey presto, still 8/10ths of a second slower. On the off chance you need two changes, you are still 6/10ths of a second slower.

Now try 0-100mph. This needs 3 changes. Is there 6/10ths of a second difference between a Cupra and FR from 0-100mph? No. You are now even further ahead in the Cupra.

You are right about this not being what the original post was about, but had to say something when I saw someone say that they though a standard FR TFSi DSG would be as fast or faster than standard Cupra. In two words, no chance.

To be honest, even if the DSG box was available in the Cupra I would not have it as it is not my cup of tea. Yes I have driven a DSG, but as much as people want to say they can drive it in manual mode, it still changes up at high rpm for you and it still changes down if you go too slow.

For the amount of money DSG costs on an FR TFSi, you are looking Cupra money pretty much and with it superior brakes, uprated engine, bigger turbo etc etc but more importantly more power and no less mpg. Fair enough if you want or need an automatic, but dont kid yourself that the less powerful car is as fast or faster despite the magic gearbox. The Cupra would still be faster in accelaration and have a higher top speed than an FR DSG. Remap the FR, and that would most likely no longer be the case, but a standard Cupra would not be miles behind it

I absolutely agree with you, and on top of these arguments have to add that a Golf V-GTI edition 30 (same engine as the Cupra-slightly detuned to 230hp) with DSG gearbox has been tested slower in 1/4 mile and 0-160 km/h than a standard Cupra ...

 

[moondevil]

All of these arguments assume a perfect manual gearshift every time. Watch the VW GTi vs GTi DSG videos. That guy can really change gear, but he gets dusted by the DSG. I'm not saying that this is a true picture, but real world, just one slip in the cupra and you're toast. DSG is perfect every time. So figure against figure, it's a close call for cupra vs mapped fr, but real world? My money on the DSG every time.

(but I would say that as an "enthusiastic" DSG driver who is hoping launch control doesn't void the warranty!)

I'll get my coat......