Test Drive, Eye Opener

[Biker]

I test drove the new Cupra 280 today, what can I say......WOW and yes I am going to buy one!
But I had set my mind on a manual model, I've never seen the appeal of the DSG gearbox before but that said I had never tried one either. The car I drove today though, had a DSG gearbox fitted and I found myself quite enjoying it! My big issue now is manual or DSG?
I am still erring towards a manual but I'm worried if I buy one I may not enjoy it as much as the DSG one I tested. I need to find a dealer with a manual demonstrator I think.

But, what a car! I absolutely loved it

 

[Stegor]

You'll enjoy either. I own a DSG but I sometimes miss the control of a manual. But when I drive a manual I miss the ease of a DSG (especially in traffic). Most people seem to be leaning towards the manual in the Cupra which is understandable in a driver's car. You won't beat the DSG away from the lights though ;-)

 

[keithjeb]

DSG is great for both launches and traffic, the latter particularly if you spec adaptive cruise. On the petrol they might not be as frustrating, but on the diesel I've driven (a golf, but I don't see why it would be different) its kind of annoying as it kicks 6>3, when it really needs to be 6>4.

 

[matthab]

DSG any day. Downside though is it can throw some big bills out of warranty period, but it is getting better every year.

 

[shadak]

I just posted my 1.8 petrol DSG impressions in the riders thread with some DSG notes if you want to check it out. Personally I love it and dont want to go back to manual now

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=398707

 

[RasmusDC]

the DSG gearbox, is a mess quality wise, the 6 speed is a bit stronger than the 7 speed in the 1.8 buts it also a bit more rough..

WE have so many issue in DK with 7 speed DSG (and a lot with the 6 speed) and the chain driven VW´s (funny that all the new ones are belt driven again).

i rented a Golf GTI DSG (brand new) for 3 weeks in Scotland, drove it 2500km, liked it at times, but it also had som "slow shifts" and a bit of jerkiness at times, it was not all butter smooth, also felt decoupled from the experience..

have a couple of friends with DSG, most boxes get rough after the first 40.000 miles, or if they drive much "start / stop" city.. 2 of them have had the whole clutch system replaced, within the first 60.000 miles... another can´t get reversen with a "coldcar" it has to stay in idle from cold start 60-90 sek. before it goes into reverse, with a clonk...

but one guy did 150k miles with a 6 speed DSG in a 140PS Altea Diesel, without a hitch, but he is very soft around it, not going fast from reverse to drive, and so on.. and LOTS of highway miles, not many city. (but i hate this being one of 5 story, it seems that the box still has loads of issues)

i went with the manual because of all this, plus the VAG 6 speed manual gearbox is a smooth and nice gearbox.

But when it works, its a nice feature, its fire and forget, with the accelerator, and its blazing fast..

but i have no trust in it yet.

 

[shnazzle]

A lot of the DSG issues are hearsay. The numbers stack up in favour of DSG. Yes they do break, but not often enough for it to be a blocker. Think of the number of Audi, VW and Seat DSGs out there.
I've had 2 DSGs, one on a car over 80k miles and driven hard, and one on a remapped diesel with 332ft/lb torque.... DSG never skipped a beat.

Likewise, I test drove the Cupra 280 DSG last week and it was absolutely amazing. I love it. I want it. I cant afford it haha.
But I'd definitely go for DSG when I do get one. Manual in the Leon isn't exactly "sporty" anyway. If you're after driver feel etc, get a proper RWD sports car

 

[ZBOYD]

I chose a DSG for two main reasons. Firstly because of arthritic joints in my feet and ankles, made the commute to work in wall to wall traffic ever more painful. Secondly, because most of my annual driving is the aforementioned commute.

I think I'd still probably prefer a manual for the B road blasts, but this happens so rarely these days I opted for what made driving a more comfortable experience.

Though saying that, I've really started to enjoy the DSG in my 1.8FR. I've taken it for a few blasts out on my favourite B roads (peak district) and i've loved the manual mode with the flappy paddles. In auto mode it can tend to make some clangers in terms of selecting gears or pausing/lurching off etc. But the more I have driven it, I've got more used to what it struggles with, and generally takeover in manual mode before the box has to make any decision.

But my commute to work now is a doddle, no painful feet and less stress.

Only two things I am missing from my old Mk2 Cupra, are the race seats and the lack of about 170 ponies But that's on the rare occurrence I get out on the B roads.

I'd certainly consider a Cupra or Cupra R in the future with DSG, for the same reasons I chose the FR.

 

[RasmusDC]

A lot of the DSG issues are hearsay. The numbers stack up in favour of DSG. Yes they do break, but not often enough for it to be a blocker. Think of the number of Audi, VW and Seat DSGs out there.
I've had 2 DSGs, one on a car over 80k miles and driven hard, and one on a remapped diesel with 332ft/lb torque.... DSG never skipped a beat.

Likewise, I test drove the Cupra 280 DSG last week and it was absolutely amazing. I love it. I want it. I cant afford it haha.
But I'd definitely go for DSG when I do get one. Manual in the Leon isn't exactly "sporty" anyway. If you're after driver feel etc, get a proper RWD sports car

there´s been a customer investigation by the danish motoring magazine on DSG and on 1.4 chain driven engines, and its not "minor numbers" that has issues..

DIRECT failure of the clutch and gearbox are NOT normal

but a large change in the "feel" of the gearbox and both jerkiness and rough shifts later on in the lifespan is an issue.. (it might be because its easier to "feel" the "age" creeping up on DSG, and you can compensate with a MT i don´t know)

i actually do not base my opinion on these tests, the only thing i can say, that out of the 5 i know with DSG 4 has issues, 2 of them had a clutch exchange UNDER warranty, that frightens me..

the cars are..

VW Passat 2.0 TDI highline (had a new clutch) 170bhp Diesel (don´t know the age)
VW Touran 1.9 TDI 105 Freestyle DSG 2008 - (issues with reverse and gives out a LARGE clunk at times)
Seat Altea 2.0 140ps DSG (early guess 2007 model) - runs smooth no issues
Skoda Superb DSG 170ps diesel - had a couple of reprogramming and "adjustments" of the gearbox.
VW passat 3.6 R36 DSG - had a new clutch, he admits to having trashed the car, simple "USED it hard" so he accepted that it died...

been in all the cars...

so its what i base my opinion on.. it might be an "unlucky" streak.

 

[morini]

I'll start by saying I understand why people would like DSG in a daily driver and I am all for choice. That said, this is a hot hatchback and cars in this segment really should be manual (I'm dyed in the wool and can't see it any other way). Provided they don't take away the choice and force me to drive an auto I don't much care what others choose.

There's a place for automatics, but that place is not in a hot hatch. Some folk prefer autos for very valid reasons, not me though. For me auto transmission equates to lazy arsed business man doing millions of motorway miles.

Young people are eventually going to lose part of the skill and enjoyment of driving if manufacturers take away the choice. I'm dismayed that manufacturers are now starting to take away peoples choice (Clio, Merc A series AMG etc). There'll come a time when you can't buy a manual so make the most of it while you can.

The poll in the sticky for those who have order a cupra (so far) suggests I'm not the only one who feels like this.

 

[ZBOYD]

Choice is dictated by sales though as well. Manufacturers look at the sales figures, and whether the purists like it or not, autos are getting more popular. If they were not selling them, they wouldn't bother offering it.

More are opting for auto's because in this country at least the majority of the time your using it, your in gridlock.

Auto's are not just about laziness however, maybe in the case of people who can't be arsed to learn a manual box.

But in some cases they provide an alternative to those who through either illness or disability lack the ability to now painlessly use a manual gearbox.

However i'm a proponent for choice. and that at least is what SEAT have given with the Cupra. Just those who want a manual have had to wait a little longer for it.

I weighed up the pro's and cons, and for the small amount of use it will get where I'd really need the freedom of a manual gearbox, it was better to run a DSG where I'd reap the benefits on a daily basis.

 

[morini]

Auto's are not just about laziness however, maybe in the case of people who can't be arsed to learn a manual box.

But in some cases they provide an alternative to those who through either illness or disability lack the ability to now painlessly use a manual gearbox.

I can see this and have no problem with it.

I just hope enough people continue to buy manual hot hatches so manufacturers still consider them valid and don't drop them from ranges. I don't want to be forced into an auto because I really don't like them, plain and simple.

Debate will no doubt go on forever on this topic, but nobody will ever convince me that an automatic car delivers a better driving experience. Shame on Mercedes and Renault for telling me what's best.

 

[robdf2]

Theres also another side of the Auto debate , and thats the tuning potential.

I would say a lot of potential owners are going to be swayed by the fact that you can have the car mapped and to an extent not worry so much about needing to change your clutch out.

I have driven a couple of potential new cars Scirocco R , Audi S4 both Autos and i just felt disconnected , like i was there just for the ride and not actually driving the car it just felt numb , i jumped back in my manual and i instantly felt part of the mechanics of the car.
but thats just my view.

Every now and again i could see the enjoyment or borrowing an auto and going for a blast then handing it back , but sheer driver enjoyment i would miss a manual , i couldnt justify spending £25 k plus on a car which didnt give me the enjoyment everytime i drove it.

Am i worried about traffic light grand prix's and my Auto will be quicker away errrmmmm NO !
im not anti auto , i just havent reached that point in my life where my slippers and pipe are waiting for me when i get home

 

[arreruk]

I've had a couple of DSG boxes. One in an A3 140 TDi and the other in an Ibiza Cupra. The former covered 66,000 miles and had the backside thrashed out of it (company car ) and the latter covered 30,000 but was more kindly treated as I paid for it. Neither missed a beat and I loved the convenience of the auto in town and the F1 stylee fun when switching to 'manual' mode. I can highly recommend it for blasting round Milton Keynes many roundabouts - lol.

Currently in a Focus ST3 250 so stuck with the manual box but if the Cupra 280 had been available when I came to change I'd have been on it like a flash. My experience with DSG has always been positive and I've never felt that I was missing anything when hammering round B roads. As an enthusiastic driver, I feel that DSG neither adds or takes away from the driving experience - it just makes is different and the massive advantage of having an auto in traffic was what sold it to me. Driving my WRX STi or my Astra GSi or the Focus ST (amongst many of the 'hot' motors I've owned) in traffic was / is just painful and removes some of the joy from what are great cars. For the rare occasions when it is possible to 'give it some' I like the novelty of the flappy paddles.

The great thing is, as previously mentioned here, Seat have given everyone a choice and I'm sure that whatever the choice each of us makes the Cupra will be a fantastic drivers car regardless of how the cogs are shifted.

All I have to do now is work out how I can organise my finances to chop in my 11 month old Focus


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Biker]

Thank's for the feedback guys,you have given me plenty food for thought. Much as I enjoyed the DSG I think I am probably going to go for a manual gearbox.

But It will probably be a few weeks before I place the order, so plenty time for a change of mind.......lol

 

[-=Rob=-]

Will the engine speed in top gear on a dsg box be the same as the manual? Tested a Cupra dsg last week and was revving at 3k at 80mph. Wasn't sure if this was high or low, been used to low revving diesels for the past 6 years!

Found the dsg to be fun but I think I'd go manual, it's very specific to what you like really. Don't think their is any one option better than another... If you want to save money the manual is £1200 cheaper too.

 

[niggle]

Will the engine speed in top gear on a dsg box be the same as the manual? Tested a Cupra dsg last week and was revving at 3k at 80mph. Wasn't sure if this was high or low, been used to low revving diesels for the past 6 years!

Not sure about the Cupra but on the 184 diesel the 6-speed DSG is slightly higher geared than the 6-speed manual, 34.7mph/1,000rpm rather than 34.5mph/1,000rpm in 6th gear.

The 7-speed DSG is also slightly higher geared than the 6-speed manual on the same engine.

3,000rpm at 80mph doesn't sound too bad for a performance petrol engine. My ancient MX-5 is pulling 4,000rpm at 80mph in 5th.

 

[Biker]

Well, placed the order today and I went for a manual version. Three door 280 in red with black leather, can't wait.........lol

 

[Moonhead]

Well, placed the order today and I went for a manual version. Three door 280 in red with black leather, can't wait.........lol

Sounds very nice mate, especially the red with the black leather, but what happened to the DSG?

 

[Biker]

Sounds very nice mate, especially the red with the black leather, but what happened to the DSG?

Well I haven't given up totally on the DSG, my nephew was with me today and he ordered the same car but with DSG.

So we can swap around and have the best of both worlds