The secret to decent MPG in your LCR !

[J@mes W]

I can't believe some of the posts on this thread.
Hot hatches or not, your cars are lethal weapons, and if you insist on driving them in the way you so proudly and arrogantly say you do, it's only a matter of time before you kill yourself, or more importantly, someone else, on the road.

Fair enough, I'm only running a standard 1.6, so could not compete with the Cupra brigade even if I wanted to, but at least I know that I'm not thrashing the living daylights out of my car, and if something untoward does happen, it won't be my stupidity that causes it.

That's a very generalized comment, I’m not quite sure who you're referring to with that comment, but you've got to remember this is a forum is for car enthusiast. And as far as I can tell no one has been boasting about their speeding antics, they're merely discussing the fact that they enjoy driving their cars for the fun of it.

In some instances this may include exceeding the speed when the conditions permit, I don’t subscribe the to the "speeding is always dangerous" viewpoint, I think this philosophy is short sited and serious out dated. Of course the government loves this stance because it means they can keep putting up speed camera rather than educating people to be better drivers, this option allows far more money to be made.

Please don’t think that I drive around like a lunatic everywhere I go because I don’t, but I do enjoy driving my car and in some instances this may be in excess of the speed limit. I genuinely believe that a skilled, alert driver traveling at 75MPH on a B-road is far less dangerous that someone who's not paying attention but driving along at 45MPH.

Of course this is only my humble opinion on the subject.

 

[mikeholroyd]

I'm more than aware that this is an enthusiast's forum, but I too own a Leon, I enjoy driving it, and therefore am somewhat of an enthusiast myself.

I agree that someone's spirited driving (when the driver has both the intelligence and experience to handle it) can cause less problems than someone pottering around, but it must be remembered that traffic laws and speed limits are not just a revenue collector -- they are in place for the purposes of road safety. Time and again it has been proved that excess speed kills, and I am firmly against comments like your very own that "there is a time to drive like a hooligan". There is never a time to drive in this manner, not at least on public roads shared by other road users who might just be in the wrong place at the wrong time when they are wiped out. Again, to quote "its a HOT HATCH, this car was made to be blasted around B roads, not sat doing 70 on a motorway (hoping and praying for 30mpg!) -- no vehicle is made to be driven in a stupid manner like this.

Just my opinion -- and before you say I don't know what I'm talking about, I am an ex- driving instructor who has also lost 2 of my nearest and dearest through an "enthusiast" pushing his car to the limit on a road known for "spirited driving"

Enough said

Mike

 

[TubbyTwo]

If your worried about MPGs get an oil burner lol

 

[J@mes W]

Maybe "hooligan" was the wrong word to use, I’ve never driven my car to its limits or any where near it for that matter, im of the opinion that this sort of driving should be saved for the track... I merely drive my car in a "sprinted" fashion when the conditions allow.

Of course I understand that the traffic laws and speed limits are in place for our own safety, I’ve spent the last couple of weeks in Dubai and Jordan where the standard of driving is truly shocking, so believe me I can appreciate their importance.

But I really do think the government need to revaluate their stance on driving education, its far too easy to blame ALL accidents on excessive speed, of course there are many accidents every year which were caused as a direct result of speeding, but there are many other variables which can lead to a crash, wrong tire pressures, lack of understanding of car physics, poor maintenance to name a few.

As I’m sure you're aware as a ex driving instructor, In Finland the driving test is far more comprehensive than in the UK, this includes a skid pan session and ice driving to ensure that drivers have a sound understanding of car physics. This is something I wish we would adopt in the UK.

I read something the other day which really highlighted how uneducated some UK drivers can be, BMW done a survey and it was discovered that 85% of 1 series owner thought there car was front wheel drive. I don’t know about you, but this lack of understanding worries me.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that blaming all accident on excessive speed is a cop out, a convenient one at that, there are so many other things we need to educate people about, but until they stop blaming all accidents on speeding there we're never going to see any improvements in the quality of driving in the UK.

 

[D_O_U_G_I_E]

Very interesting thread to read...

Keeping with the questions/comments discussed - l've always owned pretty thirsty cars since l passed my test many, many moons ago, and my LCR is no exception! l brought the car because not only do l think its one of the most attractive cars on the VAG scene at the moment but because it is a fantasticly fun and fast hot hatch. Yes it burns holes in my pocket and has came very close to reducing me to tears on more than one occassion when it comes to putting more juice in her, but would we really have it any other way if it meant comprimising on the way it drove? l don't think so... That said, l have seen 38mpg show on my MFA on more than one occasion and l have even managed to get near the 400 mile mark with the one tank of fuel, but l under no circumstances sit watching it, adapting the way l drive to try and scrap a few extra miles out of the tank. That theory just seems daft to me! At the end of the day, as long as l break the 300 mile mark, regardless of how l drive during those miles......l'm a happy bunny!

On a different note, all this business where people are preaching about how we should or shouldn't drive is a bit harsh! ls it really anyone's business whether we LCR drivers like to put our foot down every now and again and enjoy the exact reason our cars were ever made? l think not! l'd like to think that the pure fact we're all sat on this forum discussing the subject and not on the sorry excuss for a 'following' that is the Max Power groupies proves that we all look out for the condition and well being of our cars and our selves, and that none of us would ever drive in a way/to the point that would knowingly endanger anyone else on the roads (or off for that matter!)
As for the conversion regarding speed being a major factor for accidents on the roads - its no where near as true as most people would think if you actually spend time looking in to the facts and figures and the reasons the accidents were caused in the first place! As mentioned by a couple of people on this thread already, one of the biggest factors in accidents these days are idiots that don't actually know how to drive! No offense what so ever intended to the ex-driving instructor amoung us, but most 'kids' manage to pass their tests with out actually knowing how to drive, then they hit the roads thinking they're the worlds greatest driver and THATS when accidents happen! lf our driving lessons and tests were a bit more intense and taught people more skills and theroies that they'd actually end up using when driving......then the roads would be much safer to be on!

Sorry for the novel, but rant over now...

 

[DannyC87]

As for the conversation regarding speed being a major factor for accidents on the roads - its no where near as true as most people would think if you actually spend time looking in to the facts and figures and the reasons the accidents were caused in the first place

Cause of Accident % of Accidents
Inattention: 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%
Looked but did not see: 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless: 18.4%
Failed to look: 16.3%
Lack of judgment of own path: 13.7%
Excessive speed: 12.5%

From a report by 13 police forces in 2001.
Source: http://www.speedcameras.org/speed_camera_facts.php

 

[D_O_U_G_I_E]

Enough said....

(Cheers for the figures DannyC87 - l couldn't find the page l'd been reading them on when writing my post)

 

[DannyC87]

Enough said....

I personally think it is a cop out to an extent. Excessive speed will kill, but the government definition of excessive speed in a number of cases is ridiculous. Educate learner drivers to drive rather than just pass their test and implement a pre-road test similar to the CBT to ensure learner drivers are competent to drive on the road and a number of problems would be solved in my opinion.
There are a lot of cases when excessively slow speed is just as dangerous as excessively high speed.

This would be the reason why my average mpg over 2 years has been 21.1 I guess?!

 

[D_O_U_G_I_E]

I personally think it is a cop out to an extent. Excessive speed will kill, but the government definition of excessive speed in a number of cases is ridiculous. Educate learner drivers to drive rather than just pass their test and implement a pre-road test similar to the CBT to ensure learner drivers are competent to drive on the road and a number of problems would be solved in my opinion.
There are a lot of cases when excessively slow speed is just as dangerous as excessively high speed.

This would be the reason why my average mpg over 2 years has been 21.1 I guess?!

Yeah, as l said, if the young/first time drivers under went harder tests etc then they'd be much more confident when it came to driving but also more able to judge what other drivers are doing/going to be doing, as well as prove to them that they need to be paying attention all the time their engines running and not just when they can be bothered.

 

[mikeholroyd]

Very interesting thread to read...
No offense what so ever intended to the ex-driving instructor amoung us, but most 'kids' manage to pass their tests with out actually knowing how to drive, then they hit the roads thinking they're the worlds greatest driver and THATS when accidents happen! lf our driving lessons and tests were a bit more intense and taught people more skills and theroies that they'd actually end up using when driving......then the roads would be much safer to be on!

Sorry for the novel, but rant over now...

No offence taken at all, I'm the first to agree with you, at least in part. And hence one of the main reasons I'm no longer instructing. But I cannot and will not agree that MOST kids who pass the test don't know how to drive. The driving test has been toughened up no end in recent years, and long gone are the days when an instructor could teach someone to simply pass a driving test. No matter how much education you give someone, you'll never change the invincible attitude of a few (note I'm saying FEW, not the majority) of new drivers have, and it is those FEW that are causing the problems on the roads. It's a combination between immaturity, arrogance, showing off and lack of experience that all add up to a very dangerous combination.

OK, maybe I've jumped too quickly at the post saying it is acceptable to drive like a hooligan -- but 20 years of instructing, and a recent loss because some idiot wiped out 2 of my closest friends by doing just that still stings. You try telling a dead 22 year old man's fiancée that she won't be getting married this summer just because some idiot couldn't handle his car at 80mph on a country road. Just because he was showing off to his mates........... not only is he now serving a prison sentence, he'll have that on his conscience for the rest of his life.

Mike

 

[DannyC87]

No offence taken at all, I'm the first to agree with you, at least in part. And hence one of the main reasons I'm no longer instructing. But I cannot and will not agree that MOST kids who pass the test don't know how to drive. The driving test has been toughened up no end in recent years, and long gone are the days when an instructor could teach someone to simply pass a driving test. No matter how much education you give someone, you'll never change the invincible attitude of a few (note I'm saying FEW, not the majority) of new drivers have, and it is those FEW that are causing the problems on the roads. It's a combination between immaturity, arrogance, showing off and lack of experience that all add up to a very dangerous combination.

OK, maybe I've jumped too quickly at the post saying it is acceptable to drive like a hooligan -- but 20 years of instructing, and a recent loss because some idiot wiped out 2 of my closest friends by doing just that still stings. You try telling a dead 22 year old man's fiancée that she won't be getting married this summer just because some idiot couldn't handle his car at 80mph on a country road. Just because he was showing off to his mates........... not only is he now serving a prison sentence, he'll have that on his conscience for the rest of his life.

Mike

I completely understand where you are coming from; but it would be a bit stereotypical to say that every car enthusiast batters down back roads at uncontrollable speeds. I am only 23 and only 6 years ago a number of my classmates passed there tests who are a blatant danger to themselves and others; but more through incompetence and lack of confidence and concentration.

 

[D_O_U_G_I_E]

No offence taken at all, I'm the first to agree with you, at least in part. And hence one of the main reasons I'm no longer instructing. But I cannot and will not agree that MOST kids who pass the test don't know how to drive. The driving test has been toughened up no end in recent years, and long gone are the days when an instructor could teach someone to simply pass a driving test. No matter how much education you give someone, you'll never change the invincible attitude of a few (note I'm saying FEW, not the majority) of new drivers have, and it is those FEW that are causing the problems on the roads. It's a combination between immaturity, arrogance, showing off and lack of experience that all add up to a very dangerous combination.

OK, maybe I've jumped too quickly at the post saying it is acceptable to drive like a hooligan -- but 20 years of instructing, and a recent loss because some idiot wiped out 2 of my closest friends by doing just that still stings. You try telling a dead 22 year old man's fiancée that she won't be getting married this summer just because some idiot couldn't handle his car at 80mph on a country road. Just because he was showing off to his mates........... not only is he now serving a prison sentence, he'll have that on his conscience for the rest of his life.

Mike

Some good points buddy - Fair play to you Mike! Same old, same old isn't it really. lts always a small percentage of the goup (in this cases reckless drivers) that fk things up for everyone, in every sense of the word!

 

[BigV]

you can get good mileage with just 2 and 3....

but...what is the point in good MPG? its a HOT HATCH, this car was made to be blasted around B roads, not sat doing 70 on a motorway (hoping and praying for 30mpg!)

dude, im not made of money, but i hardly ever look at my MPG. If it starts to get empty then it gets filled. I knew these cars like a drink when i was looking to buy.

If owners are constantly banging on about MPG then theres no point in owning a car like this...

sos for the rant, but 'LCR and MPG' threads wind me up

I assume you are talking about petrol models here? In which case I agree.....
What is the point in buying a LCR and then driving like a nun? On of the reasons I loved my old car was because it would absolutely take off; with one prod of the throttle you could go from 70mph to 130 in the blink of an eye, although obviously I only ever made use of this type of peformance on track days and private roads.

Don't buy a turbocharged petrol car for economy. - Also, if you are gonna drive at 70mph what is the point in the remap???? I just changed from a Volvo (don't laugh, 240bhp stock, can be chipped to 280bhp), to a Leon TDI because I wanted better economy, I was happy to give up a bit of performance to get more MPG and MUCH lower insurance costs.


Putting the words MPG and LCR in the same sentence is like using the word diet follow by chocolate cake....... does not compute I'm afraid.

 

[BigV]

I'm more than aware that this is an enthusiast's forum, but I too own a Leon, I enjoy driving it, and therefore am somewhat of an enthusiast myself.

I agree that someone's spirited driving (when the driver has both the intelligence and experience to handle it) can cause less problems than someone pottering around, but it must be remembered that traffic laws and speed limits are not just a revenue collector -- they are in place for the purposes of road safety. Time and again it has been proved that excess speed kills, and I am firmly against comments like your very own that "there is a time to drive like a hooligan". There is never a time to drive in this manner, not at least on public roads shared by other road users who might just be in the wrong place at the wrong time when they are wiped out. Again, to quote "its a HOT HATCH, this car was made to be blasted around B roads, not sat doing 70 on a motorway (hoping and praying for 30mpg!) -- no vehicle is made to be driven in a stupid manner like this.

Just my opinion -- and before you say I don't know what I'm talking about, I am an ex- driving instructor who has also lost 2 of my nearest and dearest through an "enthusiast" pushing his car to the limit on a road known for "spirited driving"

Enough said

Mike

Yeah, your post is a bit preachy but I basically agree........................ I recently changed my car to a Leon 130TDI partly to save money on insurance and fuel.

However the other reason I changed to the Leon is because I recently picked up 3points for speeding which has made me think a lot about how valuable my license is and how one silly mistake or moment of ''spirited driving'' could potentially screw up many lives.

I don't believe outright speed is a killer, I mean I actually got my 3points by creeping slightly over the limit in a temporary road works when all the workmen had gone home!.................... However with 200+bhp under the right foot and the young male driver mentality / ego thing which goes on behind the wheel of fast cars (don't deny it, we all do it to a certain extent) I would have to say my driving standards did on occasion drop below what I was personally comfortable with at times....................

In reply to that previous poster.... I can't think of any B-road where it is safe to do 75mph... I have had/witnessed and read about too many near misses and accidents which happen down country lanes, horse riders, bikers, cyclists, ramblers, dogs, foxes, livestock etc etc can be in the middle of the road just around the next bend, stopping from 70+ takes a long time.... if you ever find a desserted motorway give it a try some time, it is shocking how long it actually takes the average car to go from 70 to 0.

 

[garycooperat34]

i'm sorry but those people are right about the MPG and it being a hot hatch - why are you moaning about it?

remember it's a heavy car packed full with ABS, large brakes and the air con unit as well as being a large hot hatch that can decrease the MPG compared to those smaller cars.

I've got the 1.6 but i shoot around everywhere! bloody good acceleration and when the tank gets low, i just fill it up again. B roads i late brake and do 70 in 4th and motorways i shoot around at at least 80mph.

i have noticed though, that since having the cruise control fitted - not only being massively more comfortable on runs, i am getting around 3-4 mpg more on a motorway.

even with thrashing mine everywhere i get about 300-340 to a tank (includes solid traffic for half an hour every morning) and can get about 450 if cruising on motorways which i'm quite happy with . I feel £30 a week on petrol is bang on what i'm happy to pay and thrilled with the car

just waiting until i'm old enough to afford the cupra R insurance

 

[leon cupra r]

My two pence on the speed debate:

What is more dangerous... a 20-30 yr old driver with good reactions, driving a LCR with huge disc brakes all round, ABS, EBA etc and wide tyres with plenty of surface area + grip at 35 mph

or

An old granny/grandad with stiff joints, who takes a couple of seconds just to get their leg from one pedal to another, eyes that barely see 10 metres infront of them, and a car old enough that it probably has servo assisted brakes fitted as an option, and may be lucky to have discs on the front, never mind all round, skinny tyres, probably not inflated correctly as she may not even know how to do it, doing 30mph.

And who is considered more dangerous (and penalised for it) in the eyes of the law?


Facts and figures don't prove everything.

 

[BigV]

My two pence on the speed debate:

What is more dangerous... a 20-30 yr old driver with good reactions, driving a LCR with huge disc brakes all round, ABS, EBA etc and wide tyres with plenty of surface area + grip at 35 mph

or

An old granny/grandad with stiff joints, who takes a couple of seconds just to get their leg from one pedal to another, eyes that barely see 10 metres infront of them, and a car old enough that it probably has servo assisted brakes fitted as an option, and may be lucky to have discs on the front, never mind all round, skinny tyres, probably not inflated correctly as she may not even know how to do it, doing 30mph.

And who is considered more dangerous (and penalised for it) in the eyes of the law?


Facts and figures don't prove everything.

A quick internet search shows :

# 1 in 5 drivers are involved in a crash during their first year on the road
# male drivers aged under 21 are 10 times more likely to have a car accident than male drivers aged 35 or over
# young drivers have a higher proportion of crashes at night than older drivers
# 1 in 8 British drivers are under 25, but a quarter of drivers who die in traffic collisions are in this age group

So... the facts and figures show that younger drivers DO have more accidents ... which kind of proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say??



Also, I think you will find many older drivers compensate for their slower reactions / poorer eyesight, etc etc. Many will only drive in the daytime in areas they know well, tend to drive slower and with more consideration. They also have a lot more experience.

Where as us younger drivers (as a whole group) tend to over estimate our skill levels and the capability of the vehicles we drive.

 

[3formrhalez]

started as a debate on mpg and now a debate on british laws, statistics, driving styles and general road politics............this is what all forums should be about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[luke_h]

I can't believe some of the posts on this thread.
Hot hatches or not, your cars are lethal weapons, and if you insist on driving them in the way you so proudly and arrogantly say you do, it's only a matter of time before you kill yourself, or more importantly, someone else, on the road.

Fair enough, I'm only running a standard 1.6, so could not compete with the Cupra brigade even if I wanted to, but at least I know that I'm not thrashing the living daylights out of my car, and if something untoward does happen, it won't be my stupidity that causes it.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Hand bags out hahah i think i just nearly wee'd reading that

he obviously wishes he has an LCR

 

[mikeholroyd]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Hand bags out hahah i think i just nearly wee'd reading that

he obviously wishes he has an LCR

Read the rest of the posts -- an LCR is the last thing I want.