Watchdog - Media

[ozz]

Clutch/flywheel

The flywheel design has changed over recent few years. They now operate a dual-mass system, which is ( basically) two flywheels, joined with springs. This has been done to smooth out the transition between disengaged and engaged.

When the clutch has not been used sympathetically, then the flywheel may well have incurred enough damage to mean that it should be replaced at the same time as the clutch.

In most modern cars the labour element required to replace the clutch is no insignificant. Remember the brake issue you talked about, they were past half way by the first service. If the first clutch replacement reveals that the flywheel is "over half way" then the replacement of the flywheel while you are in there seems prudent.
I have just sent an exeo back with 106k on the clock.
I am on my second Leon, the first ( 170 PD DPF ) I used to drive spiritedly, but with mechanical sympathy and it went back with 120k on the clock.
Neither had a new clutch.

As for going to the media, I doubt anyone would be interested ( or even surprised ) that a clutch and flywheel had worn out on a learner car, and ( I'm sorry to say) most would probably want to run a story on a learner car with an owner that allowed the brakes to go past the recommended wear limit.

As others have said, the onus is on you to maintain your car correctly.
Do you change the oil every 18000 miles ( or whatever the road going recommended interval is)
in your track car?
Or do you do it more often?
That is an informed decision you make about the state of your car because of your non-standard use of the car. You are a driving instructor and should make appropriate judgements on how to maintain it.
In 3 years of driving I think I made 2 emergency stops.
I'm guessing you have made many many more.

PS, I saw a learner panic and accelerate in to a freshly painted garage door the other week. Owner of door saw it all as she was stood washing the brushes at the kitchen sink looking out of the window. Makes you wonder why they are still allowed to use roundabouts.

 

[gaffer1986]

It wasn't the dual mass element that was the issue, it was a scored flywheel from the rivets of the clutch friction plate. So you never learnt to drive then? I agree learners should not be allowed on the road without a professional driving instructor with dual controls. As I said take it up with the DVSA. You can't compare road driving with track driving so an irrelevant point.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[KenTT]

Thank you for your helpful reply. I agree with you it is probably not that dangerous. I understand how brake discs and drums work. I've worked on them and change my brakes regularly on my track car which is discs all round, brembo floating rears and ap racing fixed caliper fronts. More annoyed because I feel they are trying to get us to replace more than we need to by not warning us. My last two clutches have needed flywheels, with Vauxhall, Honda and fiat, when I've had clutches go, you just replace the clutch, much cheaper and the dealership said it would be very unlikely to need a flywheel if the clutch went when I was purchasing the Leon, I also chose petrol on the service managers recommendation for flywheel reliability. Then they quote me over £1400 to replace clutch. I spent £1325 replacing the clutch on the Ibiza plus loads of DPF shaking problems which in the end came down to a design flaw that was fixed with a software update. I am not happy with VAG, I like their cars but they are unreliable. So far in the Leon I've had steering rack (which took a week) battery and steering wheel controls replaced. This is a well looked after 18 month old car that spends it's life accelerating gently and never going over the speed limit with the occasional stall and emergency stop. Should have learnt my lesson the first two times and avoid Seat, I just like the look of the Leon, focus looks like a goblin

Unreliable?

I think you have been really unlucky, I have had 10 different VAG marques over the course of 27 years and never had a clutch changed or brakes wear down to the metal.

 

[scrich7]

Surprised to hear that your pads have gone after 35k, I've just had second service at 26k and was told that my pads have 80% life left. Of course, I'm saying this absolutely accurate, but in my past experience, pads can last a really good length of time.

 

[Fmxvxx]

With the pads its all about how its driven seen pads last 70k seen them last 4k just down to the user.

 

[ozz]

You can't compare road driving with track driving so an irrelevant point.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

The point I made is irrelevant if you didn't read what I said.
It is non-standard use.
Your track car is non-standard use, as you will go through the gears at full acceleration and do 100% braking at least three or four times a lap. Most folk don't do that driving a road car

Because of this you will be adjusting your checks on your track car's comsumable parts ( and hopefully replacing the oil) more frequently than most folk in their road car.

A learner in a car will use the brakes more often due to
a) poorer anticipation and observation due to lack of experience
b) clumsiness on the controls, due to lack of practice
c) a greater percentage of urban driving
d)Practicing emergency stops

This all adds up to non-standard use and you need to adjust your vehicle checks accordingly.
This is the point I was trying to make. I don't think you take learner drivers on track days ( Although you could sell it as an extra )


I check my tyre pressures twice a week, because I am up and down the motorway most days and this would overheat and damage the tyres if I were to run the car with low pressures or a slow puncture - and possibly cause a blowout. Everything else I don't think I need to go over and above, as I'm not straining anything.

If you want to continue to blame SEAT for your brakes wearing out, go ahead.
I'm just trying to make you think about what you are complaining about, and that actually as a trained instructor taking an untrained person out in your car then the car is your responsibility.
Not SEAT's, not the DVSA's and not the learner's.

 

[MattW35]

My last 3 Leons, all had circa 80,000 on the clock when I got rid of them, and none of them had a clutch or brake work.

I'd be very very surprised if Seat would recommend the long life service plan for a car that does this kind of usage. When I talked to the dealer when I bought my car, they advised that this plan was only really suitable for cars that did higher mileage, and not mainly town driving.

 

[gaffer1986]

I'm not blaming SEAT for my brakes wearing out. I do make regular checks on my car, many times each week as I have to show people how to make the checks. My brakes wore out much faster on the Leon than any other leaner car I've had (I am experienced) because it has virtually no engine braking when you let off the gas so of course the brakes have to work hard. I'm merely stating that they should fit squealers for added safety. I know how to do my job and look after my car!

 

[pedro1989]

All I know is that my brake pads were down to the metal with no warning at all, the only reason I noticed is because I had my tires replaced.

I do make regular checks on my car, many times each week as I have to show people how to make the checks.

I know how to look after my car!

Me thinks some one is telling porkies....

(I took out the do your job bit, I have no doubt you actually know how to do your job).

 

[gaffer1986]

Fair comment Pedro, I probably should check my brakes more often. But I still believe there needs to be something in place for people who can't check the brakes or for people with different alloys or steels. They were only down to the metal very slightly on two corners and it took me by surprise because I've never had a learner car wear through brakes in less than 100k, let alone 35k.

 

[JMAC]

Didn't someone on here (I think with a Cupra) report that their pads were replaced under warranty as they were crumbling/defective within a few months?