Will the Formentor have the EA888 Evo3B or Evo4 engine?

Lehn

Active Member
Jan 23, 2017
18
18
30
Denmark
Hi all

New to the forum (or new to being active here!) although I'm not new to VAG coming from a 2017 S3 and being very active over at audi-sport.net.

I'm an mechanical engineer which means I have a tendency to nerd around - which I know a lot of you guys do as well!

So, as many of you know the VAG group have used the EA888 engine for a long time, actually more than 10 years, and it is the same engine that will be in the new 310hp Formentor. My question is now, do any of you guys know if it's the same EA888 engine as the 310hp 8V Audi S3 (Evo3B/Gen3B) or if it's the new Evo4 version which is to be found in the new 8 generation GTI and new Tiguan R? (And actually also in the CUPRA Leon Competición).

This would be nice to know for people, as myself, that are into tuning their car, for instance with a JB4 piggyback tune. In the new Evo4 engine a lot of the previously voltage controlled systems are changed to a more modern digital protocol based system, which means that people that have fitted a JB4 to their S3, like myself, will not be able to use the same unit on their new Formentor. I'm already in contact with George from BMS (the company that develops the JB4) and he says they're already working on a new JB4 unit for the Evo4 engine BUT fitting the old/current JB4 unit to the Evo4 engine will throw an engine check light.

Unfortunately the Formentor have not arrived in Denmark yet, so I haven't had the chance to order one. But if/when I order one I will fit a JB4 to it asap and make a thread in here with my findings. The reason why I choose to tune my cars with a JB4 unit is to maintain the warranty since it's much harder for the workshop to prove that the car have been tuned compared to a regular ECU tune (of course only if the JB4 is removed during workshop visits).

Greetings from Denmark.
 
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Sep 28, 2020
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not totally correct, I know there is at least 2 Fermentors in Denmark, how do you see if it is an Evo4 if you don”t know anything about engines ?
 

Lehn

Active Member
Jan 23, 2017
18
18
30
Denmark
not totally correct, I know there is at least 2 Fermentors in Denmark, how do you see if it is an Evo4 if you don”t know anything about engines ?
Yeah I know there's some driving around in Denmark but no one at the dealers (at least not here in Aarhus).

Last I checked there was 3 registered but I can see that 3 more has been registered in the meantime - hopefully some dealer cars! ;)

1604301939719.png


I don't 100% know how to spot if it's an Evo3B or Evo4 because they might have changed the look of the 3B engine, to use some of the same parts as Evo4, to reduce production costs. That said, the Formentor engine bay looks very much like the Evo4 of the GTI, see below.

And just some bonus info: the biggest change of the Evo3B engine compared to the Evo4 is a new turbo (still IS38 though as far as I'm informed) and new intercooler. The use of a digital SENT protocol for the fuel rail pressure sensor instead of a voltage based one because the fuel pressure has been raised from 220bar to 350bar through the new fuel injectors.

New Golf GTI Evo4 engine
1.jpg


Formentor engine
2.jpg
 
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Sep 28, 2020
4
6
Ok, I did not manage to get the engine information. But it looks like the demo cars are on the way to the dealers now., mine just got their demo delivered today.

And else the only thing I have to say, nice car and fun to drive.
 
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Lehn

Active Member
Jan 23, 2017
18
18
30
Denmark
The problem is that I honestly don't know how to spot the difference. Because they might just have changed the engine cover on the Gen3B engine to save production expenses.

Before selling my S3 I took the below photo. I have put a photo of the Formentor turbo beneath it and it doesn't look the same so for now it looks like the Formentor uses the Evo4 engine but lets see when we can confirm it with a definite engine code.

1604398707933.png


1604398677901.png


In the video below there's a great view of the engine bay, where I took the above screen shot from:
 
Sep 28, 2020
4
6
@Lehn correct, test drove one last night, I like the car and don't regret I have ordered one

And back to the engine talk, I found a review of the Cupra Leon where it was stated that the following" Als Sportstourer mit optionalem Allradantrieb darf der EA888 Evo4 sogar 310 PS leisten " I would guess that the Formentor has the same engine.
 
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Nov 13, 2020
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I searched everywhere on the internet and did not find information on the exact engine, gearbox, turbine. Who owns such information and can you post it? Thank you. It's evo4?
 

jcbmally

What the !!!!
Dec 26, 2013
593
198
Cybertron
Yeah I know there's some driving around in Denmark but no one at the dealers (at least not here in Aarhus).

Last I checked there was 3 registered but I can see that 3 more has been registered in the meantime - hopefully some dealer cars! ;)

View attachment 19564

I don't 100% know how to spot if it's an Evo3B or Evo4 because they might have changed the look of the 3B engine, to use some of the same parts as Evo4, to reduce production costs. That said, the Formentor engine bay looks very much like the Evo4 of the GTI, see below.

And just some bonus info: the biggest change of the Evo3B engine compared to the Evo4 is a new turbo (still IS38 though as far as I'm informed) and new intercooler. The use of a digital SENT protocol for the fuel rail pressure sensor instead of a voltage based one because the fuel pressure has been raised from 220bar to 350bar through the new fuel injectors.

New Golf GTI Evo4 engine
View attachment 19565

Formentor engine
View attachment 19566
This is the evo3B in the Tiguan if it helps. My facelift Cupra Ateca is still evo3 DNUE code.
EDIT: After a bit more digging my car is evo3B engine, so much conflicting info on the internet it makes it a bit confusing but heyho.
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01b7c8fb2f45970b-550wi.jpg
 
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Basso

Active Member
Jun 28, 2018
3
2
I test drove the Formentor the other day here in Finland and did a OBD11 scan. Is this of any help determine the exact engine variant?


OBDeleven data log

Date: 2020-11-07 09:01

VIN: VSSZZZKMZxxxxxxxx
Car: Seat Cupra Formentor
Year: 2021
Body type: SUV
Engine: DNFB
Mileage: 2787 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: R4 2.0l TFS
Software number: 5FF906259
Software version: 0003
Hardware number: 06K907425N
Hardware version: H08
ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0205FF906259
ODX version: 001004
Long coding: 0B2540322466050B300C0000000000000000000000000000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission

System description: GSG DQ381
Software number: 0GC906557AB
Software version: 4161
Hardware number: 0GC300013H
Hardware version: H06
ODX name: EV_TCMDQ381062
ODX version: 001001
Long coding: 0014

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found
 
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Lehn

Active Member
Jan 23, 2017
18
18
30
Denmark
I test drove the Formentor the other day here in Finland and did a OBD11 scan. Is this of any help determine the exact engine variant?


OBDeleven data log

Date: 2020-11-07 09:01

VIN: VSSZZZKMZxxxxxxxx
Car: Seat Cupra Formentor
Year: 2021
Body type: SUV
Engine: DNFB
Mileage: 2787 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: R4 2.0l TFS
Software number: 5FF906259
Software version: 0003
Hardware number: 06K907425N
Hardware version: H08
ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0205FF906259
ODX version: 001004
Long coding: 0B2540322466050B300C0000000000000000000000000000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission

System description: GSG DQ381
Software number: 0GC906557AB
Software version: 4161
Hardware number: 0GC300013H
Hardware version: H06
ODX name: EV_TCMDQ381062
ODX version: 001001
Long coding: 0014

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found
I guess the above pretty much sums it up: it is the same engine as the new MK8 Golf R (engine code DNFC and DNFB). Thanks for doing this mate!

A little more info here: https://www.ziptuning.com/damos/vw-...imos-19-6-8y0906259-scr0040000000-damos-file/
 
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Dec 3, 2020
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The 3B generation of the EA888 is not used in any of the performance cars. The B stands for Budack cycle which is VW’s in-house name for a modified Miller cycle. The 2.0T 3B only puts out 184HP/221lb-ft in Tiguan spec in the US. The “normal” versions were just called EA888 Gen3.

All Golf Rs, GTIs, Cupra Leon, Octavia vRS, etc. used the EA888 Gen3. Various engine codes like CXCA, CNTA, CXCB, CJXB, CJXC, etc. were used on the previous generation EA888 Gen3 models. The new Evo4 generation debuted early 2020 in the new Golf GTI and Cupra Leon. As is the case with the post-WLTP spec Gen3 motors with GPF, there’s no port fuel injection system. VW ditched it to save costs as the PFI was deemed unnecessary once they fit the particulate filter to it. Unfortunately for us, the particulate matter issue may be resolved but only having direct injection means carbon buildup is once again an issue. I’ve seen a 15,000km tear down of a ‘19 Golf R and the amount of carbon already coating the intake valves was shocking for such low mileage.
 
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