Tdi Cupra or FR?

[Randomman]

I have lurked here for a while and seen many posts on Tdi or Petrol FR/Cupra argument, and I have firmly decided on a derv purely for fuel/insurance costs BUT I cannot decide between getting an FR or a Cupra.

I know the difference in handling, but would a set of Coil Overs sort that out (maybe a strut brace too?) or is it more fundamental like ARBs, and will a Cupra always be the better handling car?

The speed. This is where my knowledge comes unstuck, I assume they are the same engine, are they the same turbo? What gives the Cupra 30bhp more? And would a remapped FR give a cupra a run for its money?

Lag - When do you feel the boost in FR's and Cupra's? I know it will have little effect with a proper launch but I drive on real roads in real rush hour and would like to have the kick when I need it! (I assume 6sp box helps keeping the revs in the powerband more than the 5sp I'm usd to?)

Future mods - Probably one of the more important ones as I useually spend a fair bit more on cars than I should! Does the FR have any limitations over the Cupra? Is it just turbo and manifold or does it run into pistons/con rods etc?

Thanks for putting up with so many questions!

 

[Mr Max]

the thing you havent listed/thought about is the insurance, FR is group 8 and a Cupra is group 15.

Remapped cupra (im sure someone will correct me if im wrong) will see about 202bhp, a FR would never see those sort's of figures.

 

[Fez boy]

My 130 sport was running 225bhp but the you will need to pay Allards a vist(And part with around 2K)

If your going to start re maping either then you may need a new clutch(£750)

IMO if your going to do loads more mods the get a petrol as you will see better gains for the money

 

[Randomman]

insurance isnt that much of a problem when you get to my age!

Although the people at the petrol station will forget again if I sell my petrol drinker!

 

[Randomman]

If your going to start re maping either then you may need a new clutch(£750)

Ah clutches! Ive been back into petrol for too long, I totally forgot how my old derv ate them (probably as it didnt like the taste of diesel) I assume the cupra has the better clutch? Any idea what figs people see before slippage occurs on either on?

IMO if your going to do loads more mods the get a petrol as you will see better gains for the money

But I would rather the grunt of a derv, and the fuel economy and if I do decide an FR - a few quid on insurance (not a huge difference though)

 

[Fez boy]

I know the turbo is a little different so the map on the Cupra TDi can give a few more horses

I also know a few that have remapped the Cupra TDi and have now got clutch slip running around 200bhp

 

[dmjw01]

I assume they are the same engine, are they the same turbo? What gives the Cupra 30bhp more?

You're right that the engines are fundamentally the same on the FR and Cupra, but it's the ancilliaries that give the Cupra the extra 30 bhp.

The turbo is bigger on the Cupra, and it has a big front-mount intercooler (FMIC) instead of the little side-mount (SMIC) on the FR. I can't remember whether the Cupra has "bigger" injectors than the FR. And no doubt the ECU map is different between the two.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the clutch is the same part on both the FR and Cupra.

A remapped FR will be somewhere around the 170-180 bhp mark, whereas the standard Cupra is nominally 160 bhp (although SEAT's figures are usually pretty conservative). My gut feeling is that the straight line performance would be very very close.

 

[DIFT]

If you can afford it go for the Cupra. I know its bad, but I didnt fancy sitting at the lights in my new FR, for someone in a Cupra to pull up next to me.

You also get AP brakes on the Cupra, which you dont on the FR. If you go for big power on the FR, then new brakes will be needed too.

I think you know which one you really want

 

[Guinness]

I had that other day, cupra pulled up next to me at some lights a was creasing me tits off as he left my little bad boy 1.2 haha was pretty funny.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

You're right that the engines are fundamentally the same on the FR and Cupra, but it's the ancilliaries that give the Cupra the extra 30 bhp.

The turbo is bigger on the Cupra, and it has a big front-mount intercooler (FMIC) instead of the little side-mount (SMIC) on the FR. I can't remember whether the Cupra has "bigger" injectors than the FR. And no doubt the ECU map is different between the two.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the clutch is the same part on both the FR and Cupra.

A remapped FR will be somewhere around the 170-180 bhp mark, whereas the standard Cupra is nominally 160 bhp (although SEAT's figures are usually pretty conservative). My gut feeling is that the straight line performance would be very very close.

The main differences between the PD130 and PD160 are :

PD 130 PD160
small SMC Big FMIC
smaller KKK turbo larger Garret turbo
front brakes 288mm 312mm
rear brakes 232mm 239mm
alloys 16" 17"
tyres 205/45/16 215/40/17
weight 1180kg 1215kg
ARB 19mm 20mm
gearbox 0A8.C 0A8.A
max speed 208kmh 200kmh
battery 61Ah/A 71 Ah/A
track front/rear 1419/1408 1423/1412mm​

I think thats about it. Injectors and clutch are the same.

 

[chris285]

insurance on the cupra is too high for me so i will be getting the fr

 

[Sisson]

if you've got the money go for a cupra

if you get an FR, map it you'll see at least 170bhp+ on the Cupra you'll see 200bhp+

but your clutch will more than likely slip [£700+ for an uprated item] clutch will take around 290 lb/ft

You will want an FMIC in the summer due to heat soak - [£600] won't need this on the Cupra

The cupra already has bigger brakes, the FR will want the upgrade to TT brakes [£250] + fittting

Cupra looks better, unless you go for a facelifted FR model with the 17's and Cupra bumpers...

Cupra has nicer interior IMO

Are you buying brand new or used...?

You can pick up a nice used Cupra tdi for around £9000, bargain IMHO

 

[chris285]

well i could more than likely afford a cupra, however it would be the insurance which at going to over 100 a month may be too much for my budget currently

insurance renews at end of july/august if there was a big enough drop then i might consider one

 

[DIFT]

Phone round more insurance places. You'd be supprised! I'm with Greenlight, and they are the cheapest with all my mods declared...

Go figure!

 

[chris285]

well i am 23, 24 end of may with 1yrs ncb

an fr is reasonable at hardly anymore than my current 1.4 mk2, i will look into how much it would be with 2 yrs ncb as if its not too bad then i will

other factor is if i get the job i am going for an interview too on friday, as its more money

 

[Mr Cellotape]

The main differences between the PD130 and PD160 are :

PD 130 PD160
small SMC Big FMIC
smaller KKK turbo larger Garret turbo
front brakes 288mm 312mm
rear brakes 232mm 239mm
alloys 16" 17"
tyres 205/45/16 215/40/17
weight 1180kg 1215kg
ARB 19mm 20mm
gearbox 0A8.C 0A8.A
max speed 208kmh 200kmh
battery 61Ah/A 71 Ah/A
track front/rear 1419/1408 1423/1412mm​

I think thats about it. Injectors and clutch are the same.

You missed something.....

stability control button that you can switch off as much as you want and CUPRA written on the back

 

[rashcupra]

we just had a ibiza fr tdi in for suspension insurance work and imo is was compaired to my cupra interior and exterior wise imho if you have the money definatly do for the cupra as there is so much more quality sorry to offend any1 just my honest opinion

 

[Nath.]

It's funny, maybe it's our age's

I didn't buy a cupra 20vt cos I found the ride way too stiff and I didn't like the red bit's in the interior (a bit 205 gti IMHO)

so I bought the fr and wished I had a remap and the red calipers

I must admit I found the cupra exterior way nicer

but I shall prob only do 10k miles in it in the 3 years I intend to own it and then get hopefully another bizza mk5 so it's not worth getting a remap IMHO

 

[Randomman]

Ok, so same clutch.. Hmm.

Nicer interior as well, I noticed a lower top speed (by a few kph!) I would assume this is from shorter gear ratios? Or a typo?

What torque would a remapped FR and Cupra see? Is the 700 quid clutch the only other option?

More questions!

 

[rashcupra]

get the petrol you know you want to