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K04-023 Ibiza
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107172
Cant see why you wouldn't get the same 270bhp on the lower powered 1.8t engines
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107172
Cant see why you wouldn't get the same 270bhp on the lower powered 1.8t engines
Theorectically you should get a bit more - K03s cars are higher compression than K04 cars.
It's been discussed a few times, routing of charge pipes, inlet manifold and dp are all different, different TIP, so it's quite a big job - so big that you have to wonder if it's worth it. Probably cheap enough to do though.
I wondered about keeping the inlet manifold, getting a single pass FMIC and using an Ibiza (or ibiza style) charge pipe.
It's been discussed a few times, routing of charge pipes, inlet manifold and dp are all different, different TIP, so it's quite a big job - so big that you have to wonder if it's worth it. Probably cheap enough to do though.
I wondered about keeping the inlet manifold, getting a single pass FMIC and using an Ibiza (or ibiza style) charge pipe.
K04 Charge pipe routing
Everyone keeps saying that it is such a big job, but from what I have seen the Turbo and manifold is a straight swap, albeit a bit fiddly, I have sorted out a DP / Cat that fits easily ( I think) the charge pipe routing will stay the same and will only require either a short length of Silicone pipe as the turbo outlet is more over to the nearside and possibly an elbow with longer legs to connect to the existing Chargepipe system, I already have a Forge FMIC fitted so thats the charge side taken care of. the only other issues are likely to be the oil / water feed and returns, I have three of them and will only need a new Oil feed, which is a good idea to fit new regardless...only time will tell!!
Everyone keeps saying that it is such a big job, but from what I have seen the Turbo and manifold is a straight swap, albeit a bit fiddly, I have sorted out a DP / Cat that fits easily ( I think) the charge pipe routing will stay the same and will only require either a short length of Silicone pipe as the turbo outlet is more over to the nearside and possibly an elbow with longer legs to connect to the existing Chargepipe system, I already have a Forge FMIC fitted so thats the charge side taken care of. the only other issues are likely to be the oil / water feed and returns, I have three of them and will only need a new Oil feed, which is a good idea to fit new regardless...only time will tell!!
HarveyGTI
Guest
seen this discussed quite a few times as well
with the time and money spent swapping it for a K04 versus the time and money spent for swapping it to a Garret GT28, then of course the Garret is the way to go due to the sheer performance you will get from the garret and prob not alot more money to do
changing the K04 is not exactly a straight job and it makes more sense that if you are going to do all of that work, then why not upgrade to a much bigger turbo and get alot more bang for your buck?
with the time and money spent swapping it for a K04 versus the time and money spent for swapping it to a Garret GT28, then of course the Garret is the way to go due to the sheer performance you will get from the garret and prob not alot more money to do
changing the K04 is not exactly a straight job and it makes more sense that if you are going to do all of that work, then why not upgrade to a much bigger turbo and get alot more bang for your buck?
MkIV Turbo
Guest
I would be cautious with regard to the downpipe as there is a possibility of it making contact with the charge pipe which runs down the side of the engine to the pancake pipe as obviously 210/225 engines have their charge pipe over the top of the engine for this reason. The 3" downpipe will require quite a large bend to come out of the turbo and go down so space may be tight.
Cost will be 1 thing...
How much for a 2nd hand K04 setup (turbo/mani/injectors/piping etc)...£750ish?
How much for a new garret GT28 setup? I have no idea but id imagine even the eliminator kits at 3 times this amount. If going proper BT your speaking 4-5k
GT28 will be laggy compared with K04, will have more grunt but for the £££ i think K04 is a good solution if your not wanting to spend a few £k going proper BT.
280bhp/300lbft from the K04
Internals on this engine good for about 320bhp/320lbft (i think) so its pulling quite close to that.
AMK and BAM a bit more at 350/350 (20mm pins vs 19mm)
Fit an eliminator turbo and you'll always be wondering when a rod is going to let go?
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HarveyGTI
Guest
true, and some good comments there indeed
i think what we are both saying is it comes down to one thing: Budget
I think that's the main issue (never having tried it myself of course), DP and original charge pipe.
Turbo
This is what I really like about SCN, with a subject like this you get a really good technical discussion and som really useful info and help comes out of it, I'm a member of several other forums and for me, SCN always comes up tops...cheers guys
The cost of the Garret setups is a lot more than going K04, I don't want somthing laggy, I really like the lowdown pull of the small K0X turbos, I have sourced an LCR turbo, Manifold, Injectors, Oil and Water lines and airbox from an LCR that had only done 4.5K before he went IHI so it's not even run in, for 570 for the lot! and a Maf from Feel ( cheers it arrived yesterday morning)
I have got a TIP for a TT from Ebay for £73 and fitting will cost £330 + mapping so all in all when you take into account I have a low mileage <20K K03s BF DP/Cat to sell along with Manifold, Maf, Forge TIP and a CAI the conversion will be pretty cost effective...I am looking for around the 270 - 300lbs ft mark so this should be perfect oh yes the DP / Cat for the K04 is £300 so all in all it is way off the cost of a GT or IHI conversion, lower powered I know but how often can you use all that power with our over governed roads!!
This is what I really like about SCN, with a subject like this you get a really good technical discussion and som really useful info and help comes out of it, I'm a member of several other forums and for me, SCN always comes up tops...cheers guys
The cost of the Garret setups is a lot more than going K04, I don't want somthing laggy, I really like the lowdown pull of the small K0X turbos, I have sourced an LCR turbo, Manifold, Injectors, Oil and Water lines and airbox from an LCR that had only done 4.5K before he went IHI so it's not even run in, for 570 for the lot! and a Maf from Feel ( cheers it arrived yesterday morning)
I have got a TIP for a TT from Ebay for £73 and fitting will cost £330 + mapping so all in all when you take into account I have a low mileage <20K K03s BF DP/Cat to sell along with Manifold, Maf, Forge TIP and a CAI the conversion will be pretty cost effective...I am looking for around the 270 - 300lbs ft mark so this should be perfect oh yes the DP / Cat for the K04 is £300 so all in all it is way off the cost of a GT or IHI conversion, lower powered I know but how often can you use all that power with our over governed roads!!
Extra/short length in standard charge pipe will just be taken up by a custom silicone pipe just like the way its done in the IHI conversion. Not an obstacle IMO, easy enough for a tuning company to locally produce such a pipe.
Why the need to worry about orientation of inlet mani? Surely has nothing to do with it if keeping original intercooler/charge pipe configuration, or even uprating to an uprated intercooler designed for specific car it wouldn't make a difference.
Not sure about DP though, i would have thought original K04 FWD DP would fit onto manifold and then you would need to do something perhaps down below to get it to mate upto cat pipe if it doesn't do so?
Ive never done or seen the conversion but i wouldn't have thought it would have been any harder than say an IHI conversion on LCR
Why the need to worry about orientation of inlet mani? Surely has nothing to do with it if keeping original intercooler/charge pipe configuration, or even uprating to an uprated intercooler designed for specific car it wouldn't make a difference.
Not sure about DP though, i would have thought original K04 FWD DP would fit onto manifold and then you would need to do something perhaps down below to get it to mate upto cat pipe if it doesn't do so?
Ive never done or seen the conversion but i wouldn't have thought it would have been any harder than say an IHI conversion on LCR
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Sounds like an interesting project mate.
How much do you think you'll recoup from your K03s sale along with any other bits you have off K04 kit?
Compare that with the £££ you've spent on K04 kit, fitting and mapping and what approximate price are you looking at for this conversion?
Sub £1000 by any chance??
To me that is worth the work for an upgrade to K04
How much do you think you'll recoup from your K03s sale along with any other bits you have off K04 kit?
Compare that with the £££ you've spent on K04 kit, fitting and mapping and what approximate price are you looking at for this conversion?
Sub £1000 by any chance??
To me that is worth the work for an upgrade to K04
Yep, makes sense when Dave puts it like that. The only issue is that if the K04 DP hits the K03 charge pipe, then you'll have to figure out different routing.
The charge pipe comes up from underneath, into the intercooler thenout and into the TB on the left handed inlet manifold - if you have to charge the stock K03 charge pipe route, there's no room to use an LCR charge pipe with the left handed inlet manifold. That's why I mentioned it.
Two possible solutions though are to change over to a righ handed minlet manifold or to use an ibiza style charge pipe.
TBH, if it is that easy, then it prolly is worth it.
The charge pipe comes up from underneath, into the intercooler thenout and into the TB on the left handed inlet manifold - if you have to charge the stock K03 charge pipe route, there's no room to use an LCR charge pipe with the left handed inlet manifold. That's why I mentioned it.
Two possible solutions though are to change over to a righ handed minlet manifold or to use an ibiza style charge pipe.
TBH, if it is that easy, then it prolly is worth it.
K04 Charge pipe routing
Looking at the routing of the charge pipe on the Octy, ( I dont know if its the same on the Leon Cupra but the charge pipe exits the turbo in an elbow then traverses the top of the engine bay to the offside innerwing then turns downwards so I would have thought that it would be well clear of the Downpipe. The tuner I will be using has done this conversion before on a Golf IV and didn't say that the DP had presented any problems.
Looking at the routing of the charge pipe on the Octy, ( I dont know if its the same on the Leon Cupra but the charge pipe exits the turbo in an elbow then traverses the top of the engine bay to the offside innerwing then turns downwards so I would have thought that it would be well clear of the Downpipe. The tuner I will be using has done this conversion before on a Golf IV and didn't say that the DP had presented any problems.
I spoke to the guys at derv dr at last weeks ultimate dubs and they told me i would be lookin at around £1500 to fit KO4 on my Fr (05 plate petrol) and that i should be near the 280ish bhp... not something im gonna do but i dont think it sounds like a lot of money for what you get.
as quite a few of you probably know i had an Octy vRS before this one with all the bolt ons bar a new turbo, so I will have the K03s and manifold off this one with less than 20K on the clock and never been remapped, a 2.5" DP/Cat, Forge TIP CAI with Green Cone Filter , and injectors to sell, reckon on that lot making at least £500 to offset against the K04 conversion
If your doing it yourself then it would be nice and cheap but if your getting a garage to do it you maybe better off with a new k03 housed turbo. You can get k04 turbo and parts dirt cheap, in fact all the bits would cost you less than a new garret turbo id say.
He has already got the K04 setup Scotty, read his posts
Your always going to need it remapped and £350 for fitting is f*ck all really, especially when he'll recoup costs from the sale of his K03s.
This conversion for him will cost considerably less than that of a garret eliminator.
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