I think it's built into the turbo D.K - however the turbo can't push more air than it was designed for, it's that the air that is being pushed isn't going the right way quickly enough. Because the pipes expand they must contract and i'm wondering if that's the problem. DV would only get rid of excess boost, not residial boost from pipe expansion?
I can't see that - or reverse flow. I don't think there will be excess pressure.
Odd - are you on DMF or SMF?
I just wonder what will happen to the air contained under pressure once the turbo isn't being asked to push ... and when it pushes less than the pressure it was holding, what happens to that pressure - does the tdi turbo have a means of relieving it?
Not clutch its the engine / turbo stalling / juddering. Doesnt do it with OE stuff.
Come on guys. Even if the SFS hoses were balloons, we're talking about the system being under a certain pressure, whatever it was set to when it was mapped.
The systems not at a higher pressure just because it has ballons for hoses. The pump blows up the ballons till it gets to 30psi, OK they'll be much larger than the solid alloy pipes, but they're still only holding 30psi, the same as the alloy pipes.
The volume of air however will be greater, as the balloons are larger but we're not talking balloons, we're talking a 75mm pipe which may "swell" up to 85mm across 2M length (OK I am exaggerating here!). In reality this gives 2500cm3 extra air which is exactly the same as having an extra 2.5cm of hose in the system. You're going to tell me that having a longer hose causes something other than lag? Like turbo's to die, black smoke etc?
Remember, the system knows how much air is in there, thats what the MAF/AFM does.
If the hose clamps weren't holding the hoses's properly and air was escaping, that would cause an issue, fuelling would be wrong, boost would be lost, the system would be in a mess. But given the air is remaining within the sytem, everything will be OK.
Ballooning SFS hoses will do nothing more than give you a nanosecond more lag, as mentioned above, the same as having 2.5cm more hose in the system. And thats if they swell up 1cm each side, which is really not going to be happening.
The systems not at a higher pressure just because it has ballons for hoses. The pump blows up the ballons till it gets to 30psi, OK they'll be much larger than the solid alloy pipes, but they're still only holding 30psi, the same as the alloy pipes.
The volume of air however will be greater, as the balloons are larger but we're not talking balloons, we're talking a 75mm pipe which may "swell" up to 85mm across 2M length (OK I am exaggerating here!). In reality this gives 2500cm3 extra air which is exactly the same as having an extra 2.5cm of hose in the system. You're going to tell me that having a longer hose causes something other than lag? Like turbo's to die, black smoke etc?
Remember, the system knows how much air is in there, thats what the MAF/AFM does.
If the hose clamps weren't holding the hoses's properly and air was escaping, that would cause an issue, fuelling would be wrong, boost would be lost, the system would be in a mess. But given the air is remaining within the sytem, everything will be OK.
Ballooning SFS hoses will do nothing more than give you a nanosecond more lag, as mentioned above, the same as having 2.5cm more hose in the system. And thats if they swell up 1cm each side, which is really not going to be happening.
How can you make that analysis not knowing what actually happens i.e. how much the pipes swell, where the pipes swell, how long the lag lasts for?
The sheer fact that I have gone back to OE pipes today and the problem has been resolved in terms of lag, juddering and overall smoothness confirms my suspicions.
I've taken a worst case scenario of the pipe swelling 1cm each side of a 75mm pipe over a total length of 2M. Was your swelling worse than that?
It doesn't matter where the pipes swell, extra volume is extra volume.
When you went back to OE pipes, you changed the hose clips back to the OE ones.
You changed the volume of air in the system, so you need to change the map to accomodate as you'll now be running different boost, different charge temperatures etc.
Could well be the map wasn't right. Was it remapped with the SFS hoses?
What torque were the new hose clips done up to?
The pipes were swelling around 30-35% (in some cases it looks more tbh) of there size in my section of the pipe work thus building up pressure before going into the turbo. I agree it doesn't matter where the pipes swell but I am pretty sure that the turbo, ecu trying to control the boost and other parts of the engine didnt like the increase in pressure / the huge lag before the excess boost was forced in. In the mean time whilst the boost/pressure is building up the car is chucking in lots of fuel expecting there to be air to compress and burn which could cause the this juddering / choking?
The map will be changed as the car was mapped with the problem. The OE pipes clips all need to be changed also as they are knackered aswell as some of the pipes. Thats unless SFS can give me the solution I was in sufficient time. To be fair to the mapper i doubt it was the map that was wrong. They remapped these configuration few times before and got fantastic results. This time when they done it a problem was thrown in the works.
Will have to meet up soon rather than just picking up issues like this on the net. Frustrating.
strugers1
Guest
i must admit even on my allard fmic set up it only has silicone joiners and when reving it on the spot they swell right up an that only half bar boost imagine 2bar they must swell right up. so i can imagine the sfs kit doing it a fair amount..
brad1
Guest
I can see them being very bad with the issue of swelling, i have a 90 degrees silicone bend from egr to boost pipe and that swells alot under only under 1.5bar of boost, i can imagine how bad the swelling must be from all that silicone from just under 2 bar of boost
Well heres my 2p worth....
I think Maz has given SFS more than enough time to help him in his position, they buggered up a few times, from the start, but maz just took it to be his luck (he doesnt have the best luck)
but SFS now, for me are taking the mickey.
I mean its in there best intrests to solve this, one for customer satisfaction, and two, its a money maker considering the amount of modded TDI in the UK now and growing.
They make kits for a living, i would have thought they know how to make a kit take 2bar or at least aware of the problems in there kits if not reinforced? Granted they never knew it was a hybrid it was to be fitted too, but to send pipes the wrong size for a kit, i mean its like no thought was put into it?
Pat, I think your normally informative on many things and a good help in many things, but i read your replies to be almost targetted and aggressive towards Maz problems with SFS?
I mean its not like he come onto the Leon section or TDI section or etc starting a thread bad mouthing SFS, this is his thread and only those reading it because they are following his progress?
I dont think SFS have been honest with Maz recently and certainly lost his faith in there "expert" knowledge in piping? As for TDI hybird horror stories yes there all Allards ones... strange that, but thats another thread and has been slagged off to the death already.
The silicon shouldnt swell full stop, otherwise the boost cant be measured accurately, full stop.
The best way is to have a full metal mandel bend system, thats expensive and time consuming and takes time talking to companies willing to help.
I think it should be left now, not that it was a problem letting maz voicing HIS CONCERNS on HIS THREAD about ACTUAL EVENTS/FACTS not hearsay.
Lets just see if SFS can just man up, say there sorrys or/and excuses/answer
And let all the thread followers make there own mind up.
I know mine already from listening and seeing with my own eyes maz's car... i wont be taking any money to SFS for any hoses.
I think Maz has given SFS more than enough time to help him in his position, they buggered up a few times, from the start, but maz just took it to be his luck (he doesnt have the best luck)
but SFS now, for me are taking the mickey.
I mean its in there best intrests to solve this, one for customer satisfaction, and two, its a money maker considering the amount of modded TDI in the UK now and growing.
They make kits for a living, i would have thought they know how to make a kit take 2bar or at least aware of the problems in there kits if not reinforced? Granted they never knew it was a hybrid it was to be fitted too, but to send pipes the wrong size for a kit, i mean its like no thought was put into it?
Pat, I think your normally informative on many things and a good help in many things, but i read your replies to be almost targetted and aggressive towards Maz problems with SFS?
I mean its not like he come onto the Leon section or TDI section or etc starting a thread bad mouthing SFS, this is his thread and only those reading it because they are following his progress?
I dont think SFS have been honest with Maz recently and certainly lost his faith in there "expert" knowledge in piping? As for TDI hybird horror stories yes there all Allards ones... strange that, but thats another thread and has been slagged off to the death already.
The silicon shouldnt swell full stop, otherwise the boost cant be measured accurately, full stop.
The best way is to have a full metal mandel bend system, thats expensive and time consuming and takes time talking to companies willing to help.
I think it should be left now, not that it was a problem letting maz voicing HIS CONCERNS on HIS THREAD about ACTUAL EVENTS/FACTS not hearsay.
Lets just see if SFS can just man up, say there sorrys or/and excuses/answer
And let all the thread followers make there own mind up.
I know mine already from listening and seeing with my own eyes maz's car... i wont be taking any money to SFS for any hoses.
SFS Hose Update
-----
Right a real positive update.
I spoke to a chap called Lee there. He explained to be in detail about how they make the hoses and it sounds like the ones I got are defective i.e. made wrong as they shouldnt expand. In his words "shouldnt expand anywhere near 30-35%". Lee understood deisels well and said the pipes should hold 2-bar no problem.
I am getting the pipes sent back to SFS. Lee will be talking to the engineers about making the pipes wire reinforced (this may be very difficult due to the complexity) or reinforced with more silicone so they are as strong as possible for me. He will call me later this afternoon once he has spoken to his colleagues and figured out how best to fix the problem.
So quite positive results. I am happy that I spoke to Lee and the best thing about it, they should come this week.
-----
Right a real positive update.
I spoke to a chap called Lee there. He explained to be in detail about how they make the hoses and it sounds like the ones I got are defective i.e. made wrong as they shouldnt expand. In his words "shouldnt expand anywhere near 30-35%". Lee understood deisels well and said the pipes should hold 2-bar no problem.
I am getting the pipes sent back to SFS. Lee will be talking to the engineers about making the pipes wire reinforced (this may be very difficult due to the complexity) or reinforced with more silicone so they are as strong as possible for me. He will call me later this afternoon once he has spoken to his colleagues and figured out how best to fix the problem.
So quite positive results. I am happy that I spoke to Lee and the best thing about it, they should come this week.
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Wrong ones sent out???? Sounds like the old TD2 routine to me.
Well if it gets you sorted and keeps you happy, then that's got to be a result.
Well if it gets you sorted and keeps you happy, then that's got to be a result.
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