no, not the turbo... I believe we are talking about coils here?
The only AGU thing in my car is the block. EVERYTHING else is BAM.
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Hitachi "E" style coil packs
- Thread starter rideonracing
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no, not the turbo... I believe we are talking about coils here?
The only AGU thing in my car is the block. EVERYTHING else is BAM.
allan, my leon cupra r is a BAM engine and loom, and i looked inside the connector block that goes on to the coil pack and i seen it has 4 female spade connectors, so i am assuming it has 4wires. will these coil packs be good for me? cheers
yes but you talk about the coils is not good on your car, and that the bolt down coils have extarnal igniter like the AGU engine but lets get this simpel:
3wire = external igniter
4wire = NO external igniter
AGU engine is using 3wire coils.
BAM engine is using 4wire coils.
and there is 3 types of coils for the 1,8T:
3wire bolt down
4wire bolt down
4wire push down
so you cant be using AGU coils with your BAM harness.
you are talking about 4wire bolt down coils, and the external igniter.
my point is just no 4wire coils have ever been running external igniter.
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I never used AGU specific coils. Again, I used the 4 wire Hitachi bolt down coils thats so popular. It only came to my attention the Hitachi coils where a bad match for me after I tested them, experienced first hand the car ran much worse than before and looked at diagrams for older 1.8T's where bolt downs where the oem stuff.
From what I can see the Hitachi's last longer than the push down style because of a lower voltage output.
ah rite, so to cut a long story short, it wouldnt run well on my engine? sorry im a bit clueless on this subject! lol
if you like to you can do the bolt down coils if you have the correct thread for the allen key screws to hold down the coils i think.
but you can also do other opgrades, the 2,0TFSI/TSI coil opgrade is all new from INA, i read its good opgrade, and better then the 1,8T coils. you buy the adaptor from INA and the coils local.
another option is to get new coils meybe for free.... im not sure what its called in the UK, but here in denmark the authorized seat service garage can look up vin numbers in the service PC (ELSA), and almoist all 1,8T and 2,0TFSI here have a option/"action" to look at the cars coils and look at the part number, if the part number on the car is not listet as correct on the list, then the seat garage fits all the wrong coil(s) with new. this option is because some push down coils is manufactured incorrectly at the factory, so the air under the push down forces the coil to pop up. this has been corrected now and the dealers have this option to look if the car is affected by this factory "action" (not sure what you call it in the UK), so this is not something you pay for, its the factory that pays for the coils and the time it takes.
rite i think il pop down to my local seat dealer and give them that part number you listed for the bolt down coils, see what they can do for me! i dont think they will do that ckeck over for the faulty coils, my car would still need to be in warranty for them to look at it, nothing is for free these days!! especially from a dealership!!
i see, you could be right on the lower voltage output, not sure. that could be the problem at high boost/bhp like you say.
have you thought of trying the 2,0TSI coils? i read that you can run bigger spark distance on the spark plugs.
i have thought of maybe trying it, but im only at 210bhp on a K03, so not sure i notice the difference at this level.
no you are wrong, the dealer do it for pay, but its not you that pays them, they will do the option if its pop up on your vin number in the pc (ELSA) and if you have the wrong coils, the factory will pay, im sure. this is how its works here, (im a seat mechanic in denmark). all cars can get a "factory action" (that the name of it in denmark), also if its 10years old.
but those "factory action" im not sure they are the same in all countries. thats why you have to ask your local authorized seat service garage if they can look up your vin number in "ELSA", and then they know if this option is on your car.
I did buy the INA adapters. But last time I was in US I bought 8 of the latest 1.8t push down version so Im in no hurry to test them out. However, Ive read from the guys who have been testing the 2.0t coils theyre not getting better performance, quite the opposite...
Just thought I'd poke my head in and explain why the hitachi coils lose power. It's nothing at all to do with reduced voltage, but everything to do with ignition timing. You need to know how ignition coils work for this to make sense. I presume most people on here do, so here goes:
The hitachi coils take longer for the electromagnetic field to break down, compared to the push in type packs. This means it takes longer for the spark voltage to build up, making the the spark happen later in the piston cycle, effectively retarding the ignition timing, and loosing power. The problem will get worse as the RPM's increase.
That is also why people report noticeably smoother idle when using Hitachi packs, as the ignition is not being advanced as much.
And it's true what you say about the old AGU packs. They are NOT the same as the Hitachi ones. They have 3 wires instead of 4, and are quite often black with the green VW Audi logo written on top of them. They also use a separate ignition amplifier, which is bolted to the airbox lid. The 4 wire packs have the ignition amplifiers built into them, so don't need a separate one. This type hasn't been used in the leon, but was used in the golf, old octavias, and old Audis. There have never been any 180 engines using this setup.
Oh, and techincally it's not an ignitor, its a MOSFET switch.
The hitachi coils take longer for the electromagnetic field to break down, compared to the push in type packs. This means it takes longer for the spark voltage to build up, making the the spark happen later in the piston cycle, effectively retarding the ignition timing, and loosing power. The problem will get worse as the RPM's increase.
That is also why people report noticeably smoother idle when using Hitachi packs, as the ignition is not being advanced as much.
And it's true what you say about the old AGU packs. They are NOT the same as the Hitachi ones. They have 3 wires instead of 4, and are quite often black with the green VW Audi logo written on top of them. They also use a separate ignition amplifier, which is bolted to the airbox lid. The 4 wire packs have the ignition amplifiers built into them, so don't need a separate one. This type hasn't been used in the leon, but was used in the golf, old octavias, and old Audis. There have never been any 180 engines using this setup.
Oh, and techincally it's not an ignitor, its a MOSFET switch.
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I would have thought so. The ECU may even compensate for it slightly, but it might not be able to go far enough to bring it back right again. If you could get a mapper to keep advancing the timing until the engine starts to knock (then retard it a bit 
), you would be able to overcome it I presume.
), you would be able to overcome it I presume.
Just thought I'd poke my head in and explain why the hitachi coils lose power. It's nothing at all to do with reduced voltage, but everything to do with ignition timing. You need to know how ignition coils work for this to make sense. I presume most people on here do, so here goes:
The hitachi coils take longer for the electromagnetic field to break down, compared to the push in type packs. This means it takes longer for the spark voltage to build up, making the the spark happen later in the piston cycle, effectively retarding the ignition timing, and loosing power. The problem will get worse as the RPM's increase.
That is also why people report noticeably smoother idle when using Hitachi packs, as the ignition is not being advanced as much.
And it's true what you say about the old AGU packs. They are NOT the same as the Hitachi ones. They have 3 wires instead of 4, and are quite often black with the green VW Audi logo written on top of them. They also use a separate ignition amplifier, which is bolted to the airbox lid. The 4 wire packs have the ignition amplifiers built into them, so don't need a separate one. This type hasn't been used in the leon, but was used in the golf, old octavias, and old Audis. There have never been any 180 engines using this setup.
Oh, and techincally it's not an ignitor, its a MOSFET switch.
interesting, where do you have this information?
Would increasing dwell and advancing timing compensate?
It's from the Audi forums in the US. I'm not sure if they have tried to change timing to compensate, but I can't see why it wouldn't work.
Apprently it's because the hitachi coilpacks have a bigger primary coil, so it take longer for the magnetic field to collapse on them. On a slight delay, but at 6000 RPM, it will make a difference.
Apprently it's because the hitachi coilpacks have a bigger primary coil, so it take longer for the magnetic field to collapse on them. On a slight delay, but at 6000 RPM, it will make a difference.
I had these fitted to my Leon there standard fitment on some of the S3's and Dave @ Sere sells them for a good price.
Definatly didnt loose me any power I made considerably more power them most other stage 2 Cupras [not saying these gave me any power but certainly dindn't seem to loose any]
Definatly didnt loose me any power I made considerably more power them most other stage 2 Cupras [not saying these gave me any power but certainly dindn't seem to loose any]
adam, was your coils the 3wire or 4wire?? im really sitting on the fence here not knowing wither or not to buy these!!
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