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Grahams81-Leon 4wd, Big Turbo - Back in the saddle :-)
- Thread starter grahams81
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James, I think you mean decreases spool time!
Deffo get it coated. Don't do it white as it will look shite in no time. Zircotec do metallic black which all our exhausted are done in and it looks mint.
I use the wp17 with the flexi head and the short high flow ends. Makes for a lovely combo in the hard to reach areas. Can your welder support a pedal?
Will the rocker cover come on and off ok without removing the mani first?
Great progress and perfection means doing runners over and over!
Deffo get it coated. Don't do it white as it will look shite in no time. Zircotec do metallic black which all our exhausted are done in and it looks mint.
I use the wp17 with the flexi head and the short high flow ends. Makes for a lovely combo in the hard to reach areas. Can your welder support a pedal?
Will the rocker cover come on and off ok without removing the mani first?
Great progress and perfection means doing runners over and over!
Cheers MO !!
Thanks for the info James & Alex, but so just to be clear it makes the turbo spool earlier ??? Is that cause the exhaust air stays hotter so its less dense and flows easier or am i missing something
I have just ordered a new WP17 torch with a flexi head so happy days, gonna wait to get the new torch & Regulator before i weld everything up properly. Not too sure if the welder can support a pedal - does the pedal vary the current depending on the amount pushed ??
Don't think the rocker cover will come off once the manifolds on either - can't really avoid that but suppose thats big turbo project for you, somethings gotta suffer
And Alex i know what you mean it looks like i havn't done much in 6 hours grafting in the garage but like you say doing the runners again & again is getting tedious but i don't want to rush this bit as i would imagine with the twin scroll the header length is even more important than normal.
Keep the tips and comments coming lads, really good.
Thanks for the info James & Alex, but so just to be clear it makes the turbo spool earlier ??? Is that cause the exhaust air stays hotter so its less dense and flows easier or am i missing something
I have just ordered a new WP17 torch with a flexi head so happy days, gonna wait to get the new torch & Regulator before i weld everything up properly. Not too sure if the welder can support a pedal - does the pedal vary the current depending on the amount pushed ??
Don't think the rocker cover will come off once the manifolds on either - can't really avoid that but suppose thats big turbo project for you, somethings gotta suffer
And Alex i know what you mean it looks like i havn't done much in 6 hours grafting in the garage but like you say doing the runners again & again is getting tedious but i don't want to rush this bit as i would imagine with the twin scroll the header length is even more important than normal.
Keep the tips and comments coming lads, really good.
On the regulator, keep the pressure around 20 and set the flows to 8. When you go to purge after welding without it you will need to adjust the flows as once the purge is on the flow drops.
Yes the pedal varies the current depending on the amount pushed. Gives massive control.
Ceramic coating stops the gases escaping through the tube so more gas flows to the turbo.
Yes the pedal varies the current depending on the amount pushed. Gives massive control.
Ceramic coating stops the gases escaping through the tube so more gas flows to the turbo.
I have never heard that before mate, I was under the impression it keeps the hotside or whatevers coated and a higher and more even temp, and which would keep the gasses hotter meaning they flow faster decreasing the spool time.
Otherwise why would a turbo jacket have the same effect..
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Hhhmmm Never heard that one either, just been researching and found several articles they all basically say the same -
Here is some of the bumf from the Zircotec website -
•Improved engine performance & reliability. Lower air intake temperatures lead to increased engine power, whilst keeping the heat inside the exhaust gas allows the gases to flow more easily increasing cylinder scavenging to create a supercharging effect (to provide further power gains) and allowing turbochargers to become significantly more responsive.
Something from another website -
It is also true that hot exhaust gases flow more quickly than cooler gases. Indeed a cooling of the exhaust can cause dramatic alterations to the flow characteristics of the engine.
like you said James if the other was the case then exhaust wrap and turbo jackets wouldn't work.
Maybe the coating does reduce gasses escaping through the pipes, but i would imagine this only happens and incredibly high temperatures.
Here is some of the bumf from the Zircotec website -
•Improved engine performance & reliability. Lower air intake temperatures lead to increased engine power, whilst keeping the heat inside the exhaust gas allows the gases to flow more easily increasing cylinder scavenging to create a supercharging effect (to provide further power gains) and allowing turbochargers to become significantly more responsive.
Something from another website -
It is also true that hot exhaust gases flow more quickly than cooler gases. Indeed a cooling of the exhaust can cause dramatic alterations to the flow characteristics of the engine.
like you said James if the other was the case then exhaust wrap and turbo jackets wouldn't work.
Maybe the coating does reduce gasses escaping through the pipes, but i would imagine this only happens and incredibly high temperatures.
Yeah I found similar articles when I was researching myself a while ago, it seems like a no brainer to get everything coated though.
The only thing I would be a little worried is that the increased temps held may cause cracking ect, but then it would heat up and cool down alot more evenly which would hopefully spread the stresses.
The only thing I would be a little worried is that the increased temps held may cause cracking ect, but then it would heat up and cool down alot more evenly which would hopefully spread the stresses.
So after yesterdays struggling with cylinder 4 to get it the same length as cylinder 1, in a good routing that wasn't in the way of the downpipe.
I decided to start by trying and find a way of getting them the same length...
In the end i thought bollox to it, a serious redesign is required !!!!
So.........
I got a bit carried away
So the main idea was rather than trying to fit in the extra length for cylinder 4, i thought if i move the runner for cylinder 1 to give a bit more space, plus i could save a couple of inches of length by carefull routing, this would mean cylinder 1 could be shorter aswell
So the major change was just where cylinder 1 started -
Cylinder 1 - Finished........
So i managed to save 4 inches in total over the last design
So next up was to remake cylinder 4, bearing in mind it couldn't stick out too much as it would get in the way of the downpipe. I used some of the space from in front of cylinder 3 to keep it tight but a good length.
Break for pics...........again.
I decided to start by trying and find a way of getting them the same length...
In the end i thought bollox to it, a serious redesign is required !!!!
So.........
I got a bit carried away
So the main idea was rather than trying to fit in the extra length for cylinder 4, i thought if i move the runner for cylinder 1 to give a bit more space, plus i could save a couple of inches of length by carefull routing, this would mean cylinder 1 could be shorter aswell
So the major change was just where cylinder 1 started -
Cylinder 1 - Finished........
So i managed to save 4 inches in total over the last design
So next up was to remake cylinder 4, bearing in mind it couldn't stick out too much as it would get in the way of the downpipe. I used some of the space from in front of cylinder 3 to keep it tight but a good length.
Break for pics...........again.
Continued...
So measured up its spot on the same length as cylinder 1.
Tried it on the car and it fits a lot better, lots more space for the downpipe and bulkhead.
So the redesign has put me back a bit but i'm much happier with the lengths and the design now. Just have to redo the middle two tomorrow and i'm good.
I got my new Gas Regulators with a y-piece and dual flowmeters, and my new torch delivered today
Anyhow,
So Long for now & thanks for reading.
So measured up its spot on the same length as cylinder 1.
Tried it on the car and it fits a lot better, lots more space for the downpipe and bulkhead.
So the redesign has put me back a bit but i'm much happier with the lengths and the design now. Just have to redo the middle two tomorrow and i'm good.
I got my new Gas Regulators with a y-piece and dual flowmeters, and my new torch delivered today
Anyhow,
So Long for now & thanks for reading.
Graham, I'm not a welder but cannot see how you are going to manage to weld the third weld on runner from cylinder 1 as it looks to be obscured by cylinder 2 runner.
The runners will be fully tacked up when i'm totally happy with them and then most likely removed from the manifold and welded, i will then rejoing them at a place where i can have good access to get round them.
It's gonna be tricky to check i can get in to weld up everything, need to plan the final welding very well.
It's gonna be tricky to check i can get in to weld up everything, need to plan the final welding very well.
Is this going to be a one off manifold, or are you planning on making more? i.e. keeping the measurments for everything that your doing just in case you need to make another one / more, perhaps sell some for different, 'smaller' more child/small animal friendly turbo's
Nah, not planning on making another one Mo, especially after this "experience"
So i straightened the er straight part of the runner for cylinder 4, just cos it had a bit of a kink in it.
Next i started planning cylinder 3, and pretty much spent all day on it trying to get it the right length.
Finished -
So i trial fitted it to check for fitment & fouling issues -
I refitted the bonnet to check clearance and i have about 2" between the wastegate and the bonnet lining.
So unfortunately i couldn't get the length of cylinder 3 as short as 1 & 4, and by the look of it cylinder 2 is gonna be a struggle to do aswell.
I'm going to finish cylinder 2 and try to maintain the same length as cylinder 3, then try to redo 1 & 4.
The lengths are not massively out, i would say a difference of about 2" between 1 & 4 and 3.
So untill tomorrow,
Graham.
So i straightened the er straight part of the runner for cylinder 4, just cos it had a bit of a kink in it.
Next i started planning cylinder 3, and pretty much spent all day on it trying to get it the right length.
Finished -
So i trial fitted it to check for fitment & fouling issues -
I refitted the bonnet to check clearance and i have about 2" between the wastegate and the bonnet lining.
So unfortunately i couldn't get the length of cylinder 3 as short as 1 & 4, and by the look of it cylinder 2 is gonna be a struggle to do aswell.
I'm going to finish cylinder 2 and try to maintain the same length as cylinder 3, then try to redo 1 & 4.
The lengths are not massively out, i would say a difference of about 2" between 1 & 4 and 3.
So untill tomorrow,
Graham.
great work graham , i'm curious to no how much it affects performance not being equal lengths ?
So am I !!!!
So i have scoured the internet for hours...days etc and found simply everywhere says it is ideal to obtain a equal length, but it's rarely achievable.
It seems to be the general concenses that the path should be primarily smooth with no sharp bends, secondary as equal length as possible.
It also says that determining the speed of the exhaust pulse would be impossible due to the factors of restriction from different bends and straights etc.
There doesn't seem to be anywhere that states it must be with-in an inch or x amount of the total length.
So i may just adjust the manifold slightly, i would like to get rid of the 90 degree short radius bend at the top of cylinder 3 runner, change it for a long radius one.
I think i have been a bit too anal with this, the more i look at other manifold pictures the more they don't look 100%.
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