8bit's Mk1 Leon Cupra R. Scarlett - as in Johansson...

[J@mes W]

She cleaned up lovely, looks fantastic in the pictures.

I'm finding the fluttering happens on my car in 3rd gear and above. Its beginning to annoy me now. Need to start eliminating all the possible cause, i suspect its the dump valve to be honest. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with. finding the cause of the fluttering, keep the updates coming.

 

[8bit]

Running a relentless mani/dp/sports cat with a milltek non res. fmic known as the 'welly' cooler. Same as Sam bryants.

Hmm, I've seen too small an intercooler and/or downpipe suggested as reasons for the flutter sound/surging issue but I guess that's probably not the case for you.

She cleaned up lovely, looks fantastic in the pictures.

I'm finding the fluttering happens on my car in 3rd gear and above. Its beginning to annoy me now. Need to start eliminating all the possible cause, i suspect its the dump valve to be honest. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with. finding the cause of the fluttering, keep the updates coming.

Cheers mate It's a lovely shade of red certainly and looks nice when it's recently cleaned.

I did some testing this evening with an HKS SSQV dump valve. It's utterly hilarious, got a real Fast and Furious, highly-tuned JDM car type noise, kept blipping the throttle and getting all sorts of noises.

Oh yeah, that's right, almost forgot I was supposed to be testing to see if the car still made a flutter sound on boost. It didn't. The HKS valve cannot be "pushed open" by boost like single-piston valves like Forge 007 and 008 can. So I guess it's a real possibility that the DVs are causing the issues.

I'm going to pop another shim in my 008 for a total of two plus a yellow spring and see if that helps. If not then I'll try a blue spring.

Oh, another thing, checked my B5 TIP and the bloody thing is still slipping off the adaptor I've pretty much had it with that thing now, I'm going to order the SFS one and sell the B5 one on a local car forum. I know the B5 works well for a lot of people but I tried everything I could and still couldn't get it fitted right, I think I'm just unlucky in that the coolant pipes run too close to the turbo to get a good fit.

 

[J@mes W]

It certainly looks like it could be the DV, hopefully another plate will fix it, or failing that the blue spring.

That's a pain about the B5 TIP moving on the adapter, i cant see why it would move though as its attached in the same way as the SFS TIP. I will check mine though, it shouldn't be a problem as I used a massive screw drive to tighten the clip.

Good luck with finding the problem.

 

[8bit]

It certainly looks like it could be the DV, hopefully another plate will fix it, or failing that the blue spring.

That's a pain about the B5 TIP moving on the adapter, i cant see why it would move though as its attached in the same way as the SFS TIP. I will check mine though, it shouldn't be a problem as I used a massive screw drive to tighten the clip.

Good luck with finding the problem.

The thing is tho the outer face of the inlet on the turbo is not smooth, shiny metal like the B5 TIP adaptor is. I had a THS silicone TIP before the B5 one and that never moved at all, the rough surface of the material means the silicone can't slip but the shiny metal of the B5 adaptor with no bead round the edge doesn't really give the silicone anything to grip against.

I used a small socket driver to tighten up the jubilee on the B5 TIP, got it as tight as I could. I noticed tonight that the bottom bend in the TIP is slightly kinked as when I was positioning the TIP so that it lined up the MAF with the hole in the heatshield I had to pull it up quite a bit. This obviously places the lower bend under a bit of stress so think this is why the hose is coming away at the bottom.

I had a feeling that the adaptor arrangement was going to be a PITA but went for the B5 one anyway. Kinda wishing I'd just gone for the SFS in the first place now. Posted in Bill's forum asking if he can suggest any way of securing it better and will have another go at sorting it tomorrow night, but am very tempted with the 30% off on SFS offer at AmD just now.

 

[8bit]

Decided to have one last go with this TIP before I write it off. I got some hose repair tape from Halfords. The idea being that I'll stick it around the outside of the adaptor where the TIP slides on and hopefully create enough friction so that it won't slip. Will give it a shot after work tomorrow, fingers crossed...

 

[drka-drka]

LOL Dude!!! that thing still not on, my B5 TIP went on so quik and came off just as quik to be sold. No idea how your having so much trouble

 

[8bit]

Two things, one is there are coolant pipes which get in the way of where the hose goes onto the adaptor, on my car they're too close to get a properly good fit. Other thing is the angle I have to bend the TIP upwards to in order to align with the hole in my heatshield means that the hose is slipping off the adaptor.

How come you sold yours?

 

[drka-drka]

I got rid of mine as i wasnt happy the way it angled down at the filter seemed to rest on the bottom the engine bay, my old venair one was better.

And it only came in couple colours i wanted purple...so SFS

 

[8bit]

Yeah that's what I mean about pulling the MAF end of the TIP up. It naturally wants to sit on top of the nearside engine mount, under where the airbox would originally have been. I have a Jabba heatshield and to get the MAF to line up with the hole in the shield I have to pull it up a few inches. This stresses the bottom bend of the TIP and in my case it makes it work loose from the adaptor.

My old THS one was a much better/easier fit than this too.

 

[t0m]

I got rid of mine as i wasnt happy the way it angled down at the filter seemed to rest on the bottom the engine bay, my old venair one was better.

And it only came in couple colours i wanted purple...so SFS

Another vote for the SFS.... the car loves it.

 

[RDS]

Yeah that's what I mean about pulling the MAF end of the TIP up. It naturally wants to sit on top of the nearside engine mount, under where the airbox would originally have been. I have a Jabba heatshield and to get the MAF to line up with the hole in the shield I have to pull it up a few inches. This stresses the bottom bend of the TIP and in my case it makes it work loose from the adaptor.

My old THS one was a much better/easier fit than this too.

Custom heatshield!!!!

 

[t0m]

I think flutter can vary from car to car as to the cause...

Mine was the B5 TIP but I can see how it could also be a DV not quite functioning correctly..

I remember JamJay (when he had his LCR) saying that he had this flutter on boost, and it completely went when he fitted a Forge Big Race FMIC. I think he had a stage one at the time and IIRC he believed the car was making too much power for the mods it had... The SMIC's acted as a bottle neck possibly.

Do you have an FMIC?

 

[8bit]

Thing is the Jabba heatshield is designed so that the hole for the MAF is in exactly the same place as on the standard airbox. The B5 TIP is designed so that it can work with a standard airbox so in theory they should work together fine. Custom heatshield could be an option but to be honest, having paid the asking price for the B5 TIP I don't think it's too much to ask for it to be ready to just fit and go, it shouldn't be this much hassle. If this tape stuff doesn't stop the hose slipping off the adaptor then it's getting sold and replaced with the SFS.

t0m, no I haven't got an FMIC, at least not yet anyway. I think the reason that Jamjay fixed his flutter with the bigger cooler may have been because the cooler increases lag a little bit, so the spike in boost wasn't as bad. In your case it may be because airflow with the SFS is just low enough not to cause flutter.

This is all just theory and conjecture though, as you said it looks like there are a few different setups that can cause this.

I'm actually tempted to sell the whole lot, car and all, and just buy something with a great big f*ck-off V8 and be done with it

 

[8bit]

Refitted TIP again tonight. Couldn't use that tape stuff as it turns out the back is not that sticky and wouldn't hold on to the adaptor so I just refitted it as it was before. I put my hand down to check what it was like before I removed it all and managed to pull the hose away from the adaptor easily. So much for being a tight fit and staying put once the jubilee is tightened as Bill says.

So got the TIP back on and jubilee tightened, seemed OK but by the time I had the DV, N75 etc. in and the filter and heatshield in place the TIP had come away from the stop on the adapter about 5mm and the bottom bend is quite badly kinked.

So tomorrow evening's job - remove the B5 TIP completely and put the THS one back on for now. Going to Edinburgh on Saturday and can't risk the TIP coming off on the motorway. The B5 TIP is getting sold and I'll go for the SFS one on AmD's special offer. I know there's a 3 or 4 week lead time but I'd rather have the THS one on for now and know it's not going anywhere than risk the B5 one, I have no confidence in it now.

In other news, I tried the 008 with the yellow spring and two shims tonight. Still seemed to dump fine but the flutter on boost was still there. Also got fault code 17608 so I don't know if that's cos the combination of yellow spring and two shims is too tight or what.

In any case, I can ditch the shims and not have to worry about fluttering noise once I get the THS TIP back on and hopefully I'll be lucky like t0m and the SFS TIP won't make any strange noises. I'm sure the B5 TIP works well for lots of people but because of my PITA coolant pipes and the Jabba heatshield it doesn't work for me.

 

[csd_19]

Did you check for any fault codes after using the hks the other night? I used to get that one stored, but it never went into limp mode or brought on the CEL.

 

[J@mes W]

Regarding the TIP coming off the adapter, surely if you cut the hose at the MAF end it will straighten the TIP taking the pressure off the clip on the adapter.

Funny enough i checked mine earlier and it's too bent like yours, this was done trying to fit the heat shield. Even though its kinked its still attached securely, why dont you trim it and see how you get on? Im sure that would sort it. Im convinced that the flat spot/flutter in my power delivery is a result of turbulent air flows into the turbo.

I'll be trimming the TIP the weekend so its not kinked.

 

[8bit]

Did you check for any fault codes after using the hks the other night? I used to get that one stored, but it never went into limp mode or brought on the CEL.

I did mate but nothing there, unless it's one of these ones that waits a while before telling you

Regarding the TIP coming off the adapter, surely if you cut the hose at the MAF end it will straighten the TIP taking the pressure off the clip on the adapter.

Funny enough i checked mine earlier and it's too bent like yours, this was done trying to fit the heat shield. Even though its kinked its still attached securely, why dont you trim it and see how you get on? Im sure that would sort it. Im convinced that the flat spot/flutter in my power delivery is a result of turbulent air flows into the turbo.

I'll be trimming the TIP the weekend so its not kinked.

I did trim it a bit, maybe an inch or so. Originally the TIP was pushing the MAF hard against the heatshield so I took a bit off it. That's not what happens now, to insert the MAF and line it up with the heatshield I have to pull the top of the TIP upwards about 4 - 6 inches. Once I have the MAF in the tip the end of the MAF is just inside the hole in the heatshield.

In my case at least it's not kinked because of the length of hose at the top, it's because of the amount I have to pull the top end up by is putting pressure on the lower bend. Even without the MAF or heatshield in place, if I hold the TIP around the bottom bend with one hand and pull the top upwards to the right sort of place with the other I can feel the bottom bend getting compressed.

Maybe it fits better with Bill's own design of heatshield but I paid good money for my Jabba one and I don't really want to have to splash out for another one.

 

[RDS]

I've yanked mine a couple of times and it shows no sign of moving. You must be sick mate, cant believe your having this much bother. You really dont want one of Bill's heat shields they're sh*t.

@ Gonzo - if you think you have a problem with turbulent air, you should consider getting a flow stack.

 

[8bit]

I've yanked mine a couple of times and it shows no sign of moving. You must be sick mate, cant believe your having this much bother. You really dont want one of Bill's heat shields they're sh*t.

@ Gonzo - if you think you have a problem with turbulent air, you should consider getting a flow stack.

Yeah I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing tbh. Went out to the car with my toolbox and a heavy heart last night, not looking forward to having to spend more free time on it tonight trying to sort something which is supposed to be just plug and play. If it was a totally DIY thing I'd be quite happy pottering away with it but it isn't.

Did have another thought tho, I could cut the TIP in two, either just above or just below where the side ports for N75 and DV etc. are, then use a length of 80mm alloy tube and a couple of jubilees to extend upwards so it meets the hole in the heatshield. But I don't know if that will fix the issue of the hose coming off the adaptor, I suspect not. As for Bill's heatshields, I don't want to buy one out of principle first and foremost, whether they're any good or not is a different matter

Re. the flow stack, if the turbulence is caused by a kink in the hose after the stack then that would still result in turbulence? Gonzo, I'm keen to find out if you manage to sort your kink out and if that fixes your issues, please let me know. I'm sub'd on your thread so I'll see it there, cheers and good luck

 

[RDS]

Re. the flow stack, if the turbulence is caused by a kink in the hose after the stack then that would still result in turbulence? Gonzo, I'm keen to find out if you manage to sort your kink out and if that fixes your issues, please let me know. I'm sub'd on your thread so I'll see it there, cheers and good luck

I' forgot about the kink, however the air coming out a conventional cone filter has the ability to be turbulent to begin with, the kink may just amplify the problem. If the flow stack sorts the turbulent air out at the top end at least when it hits the kink there isn't a problem to amplify. Not really sure though to be honest, I'd really want to sort the kink out if it were me.