Strut mount damaged ? Coilovers

[a22tenc]

Hi, I recently installed coilovers (DTS) on my ibiza and since I don't have an impact wrench to remove the strut mounts from the original shocks I decided to buy new ones to use since the original ones have already almost 60k km so why not.

One thing I noticed is that the nut supplied, that tightens the strut together (the first nut) wasn't the same as the oem as you can see in the photos the oem nut has a washer thing to help center the strut mount and keep it together with the strut itself which didn't happened with the coilover as the nut doesn't even touch the the strut mount so it's loose.

I was a bit doubtful to whether it was safe or not, but I read the manual and they said it was supposed to be used with the oem strut mounts so that's what I did.

When installing the coilovers I tried to line up the strut mount best as I could so it sat evenly. Then tighten the guide and be done.

Been riding for 2 weeks I think and yesterday I decided to test the XDS on Strong setting on a curvy road and apart from the tires squealing a little, the car coped surprisingly well I would say, no loss of traction or anything similar. It felt like a kart.

Today I went to check the torque on the strut mount nuts and the left one was a bit loose, since it was loose I decided to check the strut mount to see if it moved.

This is what I saw, are they damaged or is that normal ? The original ones had that too but not so pronounced. I'm thinking if this was caused by the spirited driving I did or if it was the camber since it is even lower now ? I had H&R springs before.

 

[RUM4MO]

It looks like you have only bought the top nut, the other one might be called a threaded bush in a parts catalogue, so it could be that you also need to buy that one? I've not taken that age of Ibiza front strut apart yet, but I have bought a few new parts to replace a broken spring, including a bearing which I think that special nut or threaded bush secures to the top of the strut.

Maybe have a look at this parts cat:- http://www.oemepc.com/seat

 

[a22tenc]

It looks like you have only bought the top nut, the other one might be called a threaded bush in a parts catalogue, so it could be that you also need to buy that one? I've not taken that age of Ibiza front strut apart yet, but I have bought a few new parts to replace a broken spring, including a bearing which I think that special nut or threaded bush secures to the top of the strut.

Maybe have a look at this parts cat:- http://www.oemepc.com/seat

Is this what you talking about ?

If yes, I talked about that previously, I couldn't remove it by hand and I don't have an impact wrench so I bought new strut mounts with bearings included.

I used that golden nut supplied with the coilovers to tighten the strut itself but as you can see it doesn't work the same way as that threaded bush since it doesn't fix the rubber mount to the strut.

 

[RUM4MO]

Hummm, yes that was the other "nut" I was referring to. Really until I've taken my late 2009 Ibiza apart I can't say much more, initially I was under the impression that the nut with washer and no locking mechanism was the lower one, ie the "threaded bush", and the top nut, which also has a slight washer on it but is also crushed at the top to make it a self locking nut.

Either way, any nut fitted on the top needs, (1) to be self locking and (2) be about to cover the hole in the "stop" - as that is the name of the part at the top just below the top nut - as per the parts catalogue.

 

[a22tenc]

No the top nut is not self locking and doesn't have any sort of self locking it's just a 21mm nut which I reused with the "stop". It's not in the photos because I had to remove it to check the strut mounts but i used them.

Do you think if I go to the parts store where I bought the strut mounts they will accept it as defect ?

 

[RUM4MO]

The top nut might not look like a selflocking nut, in as much as there is no obvious, like nylon insert or slotted and distorted top section, but it should, if it is the same as OEM have a slightly crushed top section - ie when new it should not be possible to wind it down that threaded strut piston rod by hand, well not fully down to completely engage the nut in the threads. If you could wind that aftermarket nut down on to that aftermarket strut, then something is wrong - but there again, you would need to grip the strut piston rod with something to stop it turning, unless that flat section engages with the new aftermarket "stop" and that stops it turning.

So, can you be sure that you can grip that piston rod high enough up to avoid the gripped section ever passing through the piston top seal?

Edit:- or maybe there is a short flattened section above the thread to allow you to grip it at the top - either way, that top nut needs to be selflocking, an OEM nut would work as it is M14 x 1.5

Editted again to change the nut size to M14 x 1.5 ! Trouble could be that that aftermarket strut does not have a 14mm piston rod?

 

[a22tenc]

You're right. Now that you mention i remembered, the top nut is self locking because i can only tighten it up to a point after that I have to use a tool to tight the rest.

On top of the strut you can use an open end 10mm wrench which is pita to use with an offset wrench. The OEM struts were better because they used a 7mm allen key which was much easier to work with as you can use a 21mm socket so it's faster be it tightening or loosening the nuts.

 

[RUM4MO]

Did you ever get this problem sorted out? I have taken the RHS strut off the late 2009 Ibiza SC and I now see what you were writing about - i.e. the lower nut does not retain or grip the the rubber mounting! So it must just sit located above the top bearing and end up gripping that bearing when you remove an old strut - which means you could probably pull it off before taking the lower nut off? I'll find out once I remove the strut on the LHS of the car!

 

[a22tenc]

I recently bought an eletric impact wrench to help disassemble the struts and what I noticed in the old struts is that the strut bearing is different from the one I bought from SWAG, as you can see in the photos it has a "lip" (don't know how to explain better in english) that sits around the strut itself so it stays even more secure.

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes, I noticed that as well, the original top bearing, originally looked like it had left its lower covering stuck to the top spring plate - but no, it must have been like that from new, a VW Group seem to have improved/changed that bearing design a bit.

Edit:- so maybe that was the part that was being changed by SEAT dealers if the customer complained about rattling noises etc coming from the front suspension which early cars were still under warranty? I asked that question on this or another forum but no SEAT tech could remember a change being made to anything like that.

 

[RUM4MO]

I have now taken the second front damper/strut of the late 2009 Ibiza that I'd sorting out and found that the rubber do-nut top mounting does get retained by the lower nut - just, I attacked the old strut with a lever and the do-nut top mounting did come off the strut but not before getting the steel strengthener distorted slightly, so although it does not look like it, the top rubber mounting should be fitted onto the strut/damper assembly after fitting the upper spring platform and then the top bearing - then top do-nut rubber mounting, then the lower nut.

 

[dm222]

I just bought two front SACH dampers also bought this two components from sachs...

Is there some incompatibility that I should be aware of?

I didn't understood the topic, were you assembling it in the wrong order or were the components different?

 

[a22tenc]

There shouldn't be any incompatibility.

The components were different.

 

[dm222]

There shouldn't be any incompatibility.

The components were different.

they were different but still worked fine, thats it?

I just bought the dampers and the two items above, should I buy something else?

 

[RUM4MO]

No, the strut with have come with a new top nut, and the lower nut thing is re-usable, also as you are in a dry climate zone there will not be much rusting of the spring top cup/platform.

I bought a new top nut, a new lower nut thing and a new top spring cup/platform, up here in Northern UK a lot of rock salt is spread on the roads in winter, which rusts up everything underneath these cars, so I was glad that I bought new spring top cups/platforms.

The hub assembly clamping bolt or at least its nut should be replaced - ie only used once.

Edit:- thinking more about this, I think that some of this discussion revolved around the lower nut not looking like it would be able to grip and retain the top rubber mounting, but in effect, I think that its function as far as the top rubber mounting is concerned is to just lightly retain the top rubber mounting until the assembled strut is fitted into place under the car as the top retaining plate and top nut "trap" it in place once the top nut is fitted and tightened.

Another edit:- dm222 as like me you are removing the VWG strut and replacing it with a Sachs one, while the VWG strut has a 7mm hex inside the top of the piston rod to stop it rotating while removing the nuts, the Sachs replacement strut has a 6mm hex inside the top of the piston rod, now that might be okay, but as I suspected and discovered, while the 7mm hex recess worked well when removing these nuts from the original strut, the 6mm hex recess did end up distorting slightly while tightening these nuts back up, which trapped the hex key - though I was able to get it back out eventually.

 

[dm222]

APSOL and RUM4MO
Does any of you know what is this washer for in the rear damper?

I ask this because one of the shocks came with two and the other one.

 

[a22tenc]

Sorry I have no idea what is that for.

 

[RUM4MO]

Sorry I have no idea what is that for.

It is the same for me I'm afraid! I'd hope that you only need to use one on each side and the second single one you have been sent is a mistake? Also, I'm sure that when you take the first rear damper off the car, it will be obvious where it gets fitted - nothing obvious in the on line parts listing ?

Edit:- I have just checked my Polo 6R Haynes Repair Manual, and there is no mention of that washer/shim/spacer.

Another Edit:- I think that when you take the first rear damper off that car, it will be obvious where it goes - something tells me that it gets fitted under the nut, ie on the top of the alloy top mounting to avoid that nut digging into the aluminium material of the top mount, I'd think that the one originally fitted to that top mount will still be okay, but no doubt you will replace it with the new one supplied - if I am correct about this, it will be sitting in a counterbore/recess in the top of the top mounting.

 

[dm222]

From what I investigated it has no use, probably this shocks fit other cars who need them

 

[dm222]

RUM4MO and apsol

I replaced shocks, strutur bearings, and top mounts (sachs, all of it).

I have a squeaky noise going over bumps at both sides, I already had it when it rains on the right side before, today I washed the car so could be that. Did you ever notice that? I changend the top mounts because of that but it remains.

Bump:
https://image.ibb.co/ig4Rbv/bump.jpg

Noise similar to this, its not a hissing, it's like rubber...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPqqf1-VZu0

PS: the sachs top mounts had the VW part number engraved in it so I think they are the same as the original.