Low oil

[leontsibob]

Hi everyone, took my kids to school this morning, on the way there had a warning to check oil, got home and it was on minimum, only checked it a couple of months ago, is this normal?

My car is still under warranty do I take it back and get them to check it or just top it up.

It’s the 1.5 tsi 150bhp

Thanks for any advice


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[BillyCool]

Some TDI's use a bit of oil and it's a known thing. No idea about the TSI.

You can read the TDI thread here: https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/threads/oil-consumption-2-0-tdi-fr.480600/

 

[Crossthreaded]

Yes, the TSI EA211 engine family is known to sometimes use quite a bit of oil during early life. I bought a new (prereg with 9 miles in the clock) Skoda Scala 3 cylinder 110hp - so basically the 3 cylinder version of your engine - just over 18 months ago. Ran it for a few weeks locally but clocked up under 1,000 miles before setting off on an annual holiday journey to Devon and back - we live in Edinburgh. As always I checked the vehicle over very thoroughly (I'm a retired mechanic) and the oil was very near to the max mark on the dip stick before starting the journey. Next morning, having arrived in Devon late the night before, I checked the level and it was a "tad" off the low mark. The garage I bought the car from warned me they are known to sometimes use oil during the first few thousand miles so I was expecting this, although a little surprised at how much it had used. I'd already bought a container of 0W-20 Castrol to the VAG spec before leaving so was able to top up immediately. I seem to remember it took about a litre? Anyway, I topped it to just below the full mark. I checked it several times whilst we were down there and the level seemed to change very little and it was still just a "smidgeon" below full when we set off back home two weeks later. Checked again the next morning, after the journey - approx 500 miles - the level was just above the three quarter mark. So it used much less on the return journey. I actually didn't top it off as I am a believer in keeping oil levels around the three quarters mark in deference to catalytic converter health etc. Oil consumption has been minimal since then. I topped her up once a wee while before her first service but since then she's not required any more top ups. She's just had her second oil service under warranty and I checked her just before taking her in, no oil was required with the level showing at just above the half way mark. Looking at this time as if that container of Castrol is going to be time expired before I get to use even half of it. By the way, I check stuff like fluid levels - Oil, coolant, brake fluid, screen wash, etc also tyre pressures, tread depth and visual appearance for damage once a month minimum

The garage hasn't been able to give me a satisfactory answer as to why she initially used so much, just commenting that it's not unusual. Personally I think it likely to be a combination of low friction piston rings - now used in most modern engine designs - which are far less aggressively "springy" than those used in older engine designs so press less aggressively against the cylinder wall (reduces friction so gives a small advantage in fuel consumption and emissions) coupled with the modern "fashion" for very hard "spray on"? cylinder wall surface treatments - which, by the way, make reboring a thing of the past. and so making reconditioning much more difficult. The combination of "less springy" piston rings and super hard cylinder walls means the rings take a wee bit of time to bed down which results in a temporary appetite for lubricant bypassing the rings.

 

[SuperV8]

My farther in law's T-Roc has this 1.5 150tsi engine - and he said it used a bit of oil when using the latest 0w20 spec, but he switched to 504 5w30 and now it no longer uses oil
To add, it's quite low miles - something 10-20k when they brought it, and now if something like 40k so maybe the switch to 5w30 coincided with the engine bedding in?

 

[Crossthreaded]

My farther in law's T-Roc has this 1.5 150tsi engine - and he said it used a bit of oil when using the latest 0w20 spec, but he switched to 504 5w30 and now it no longer uses oil

Now that interests me a lot. There's a lot of stuff online just now about how 0w20 is really a step too far in terms of sacrificing engine protection for ultimate fuel consumption. Thank goodness our engines run timing belts and not chains is all I will comment! (and even more thankful they're not wet belts!) My Scala is specified to run 0w-20 and I guess that's what the dealer has been "feeding" it at it's first two services. I've one more to go until it's out of warranty and I've been thinking seriously about changing to 5w-30 when that milestone is reached. However oils are so engine specific these days I don't know if I have the cajones to actually do it! I feel sure stuff like mains and big ends would probably benefit but I worry about stuff which might be metered through restrictors or screen filters, for instance turbo oil feed and solenoids to say nothing of restrictor jets like you find in cam feeds and piston cooling jets I worry too when I wonder how variable feed oil pumps will cope? I had some very interesting conversations with Fuchs regarding engine oil for the Ibiza so I think I'll give them a try and see what they come back with - Fuchs are my most trusted oil supplier. Opie can be very very helpful too as are the people at Powerenhancer and both are very knowledgeable. Maybe I'll just give them all a try and see what bounces back?

 

[leontsibob]

Hi thanks for the reply, I have brought some 5w 30 vag oil so will be replacing it with that, I will keep checking it, to be honest I heard some engines suffer from piston rings and I don’t want that to be the case otherwise I might get rid of it, as I’m sure it won’t be the dealer that pays for it


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[SuperV8]

Now that interests me a lot. There's a lot of stuff online just now about how 0w20 is really a step too far in terms of sacrificing engine protection for ultimate fuel consumption. Thank goodness our engines run timing belts and not chains is all I will comment! (and even more thankful they're not wet belts!) My Scala is specified to run 0w-20 and I guess that's what the dealer has been "feeding" it at it's first two services. I've one more to go until it's out of warranty and I've been thinking seriously about changing to 5w-30 when that milestone is reached. However oils are so engine specific these days I don't know if I have the cajones to actually do it! I feel sure stuff like mains and big ends would probably benefit but I worry about stuff which might be metered through restrictors or screen filters, for instance turbo oil feed and solenoids to say nothing of restrictor jets like you find in cam feeds and piston cooling jets I worry too when I wonder how variable feed oil pumps will cope? I had some very interesting conversations with Fuchs regarding engine oil for the Ibiza so I think I'll give them a try and see what they come back with - Fuchs are my most trusted oil supplier. Opie can be very very helpful too as are the people at Powerenhancer and both are very knowledgeable. Maybe I'll just give them all a try and see what bounces back?

For the EA211 my data shows <2020

Time/distance dependent service
SAE 0W-30 VW 504 00
SAE 5W-30 VW 504 00
Longlife
Engine oil (Preferred lubricant specification: When usage is not allowed, this is shown on an engine compartment information label)
SAE 0W-20 VW 508 00
Engine oil (Alternative lubricant specification: Oil of this quality may be used but exhaust emissions will increase)
SAE 0W-30 VW 504 00
Engine oil (Alternative lubricant specification: Oil of this quality may be used but exhaust emissions will increase)
SAE 5W-30 VW 504 00

>2021
SAE 0W-20 VW 508 00

I don't know if something physical changes in 20/21 but as long as the oil meets the required VAG spec I wouldn't over think the viscosity.


Toyota use 0w8!

 

[Crossthreaded]

For the EA211 my data shows <2020

Time/distance dependent service
SAE 0W-30 VW 504 00
SAE 5W-30 VW 504 00
Longlife
Engine oil (Preferred lubricant specification: When usage is not allowed, this is shown on an engine compartment information label)
SAE 0W-20 VW 508 00
Engine oil (Alternative lubricant specification: Oil of this quality may be used but exhaust emissions will increase)
SAE 0W-30 VW 504 00
Engine oil (Alternative lubricant specification: Oil of this quality may be used but exhaust emissions will increase)
SAE 5W-30 VW 504 00

>2021
SAE 0W-20 VW 508 00

I don't know if something physical changes in 20/21 but as long as the oil meets the required VAG spec I wouldn't over think the viscosity.


Toyota use 0w8!

Thanks for bringing a bit of sanity to this. Yes, don't overthink it. I realize I'd fallen foul of something I myself have warned others to beware of which is to take everything on line, like this, with great scepticism! My oil filler cap has 0W-20 on it and there's a sticker under the bonnet which says 0W-20 to VW 508. I'm being "silly" over this, especially when I tend to be very picky about transmission lubricants and will take some trouble to source the exact oil specified by the manufacturer when renewing or even just topping up.

Just checked on the Fuchs site and find they recommend their Titan GT1 longlife IV SAE 0W-20. Usually they will show the preferred product and then give other options, but in this case they seem to only recommend the 0W-20. That's good enough for me.

Edit. I do yearly service intervals, don't believe in extended intervals even though I don't do the mileages these days.

 

[SuperV8]

There looks like a complete new oil pump design arround 2020 for the latest 1.0tsi for example - earlier 1.0 CHZD, DKRF, DKLB have a different oil pump compared to the later DLAA & DLAB. This is enough for me to stick to their 508 - 0w20 requirement. My father in law's EA211 is 2019 - so gets the option of 504.

That Fuchs oil will be good - but any oil with 508 approval will also be good. They can't print 508 approval without actual testing & approval from VAG - and the VAG spec's are quite tough so any oil approved to them will be a good oil.
Ignore oils saying equivalent to or recommended for - as these are just marketing statements.

2024 list of approved oils for 508/509:

Wayback Machine

 

[Crossthreaded]

There looks like a complete new oil pump design arround 2020 for the latest 1.0tsi for example - earlier 1.0 CHZD, DKRF, DKLB have a different oil pump compared to the later DLAA & DLAB. This is enough for me to stick to their 508 - 0w20 requirement. My father in law's EA211 is 2019 - so gets the option of 504.

That Fuchs oil will be good - but any oil with 508 approval will also be good. They can't print 508 approval without actual testing & approval from VAG - and the VAG spec's are quite tough so any oil approved to them will be a good oil.
Ignore oils saying equivalent to or recommended for - as these are just marketing statements.

2024 list of approved oils for 508/509:

Wayback Machine

Thanks for that. Without looking it up, I'm 90% sure my engine is the DLAA which explains why no alternative is on that sticker. I only quote Fuchs because I've used their oils in a number of different vehicles for many years and never had a problem. I've also had a couple of very informative exchanges of info with them and always found them very helpful and easy to speak to. I'm now resolved to definitely stay with the 0W-20.

Thanks also for that attachment, very interesting.

PS. variable volume oil pumps seem to me to be unnecessary and just another thing to potentially fail early?

 

[SuperV8]

PS. variable volume oil pumps seem to me to be unnecessary and just another thing to potentially fail early?

Variable displacement oil pumps have been around for a while, and I don't 'feel' like they are cause for concern. I feel they are robust/reliable.
Obviously in theory, the more complicated something is - the more failure modes can occur! but there is a clear efficiency/emissions benefit with not having high pump losses when not needed.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Variable displacement oil pumps have been around for a while, and I don't 'feel' like they are cause for concern. I feel they are robust/reliable.
Obviously in theory, the more complicated something is - the more failure modes can occur! but there is a clear efficiency/emissions benefit with not having high pump losses when not needed.

Yup I get it. But I've always championed simplicity - "KISS", eh what?

 

[Branta]

I can comment on oil consumption (from new) in a 2024 Leon ST (1.5 eTSI EVO DSG-auto 150PS) and other VAG vehicles, but my main complaint is about why the oil specification needs to be kept a closely guarded secret ?

Car was new in August nearly 2 years ago. It hasn't asked for a service (seems to be aiming for the 2 year mark, and I've done less than 12,000 miles) so I haven't given it a service, but I will in August.

The SEAT app gives the warning "Please add max. N/A of oil. You can drive on". How helpful is that ? Sure enough the dipstick shows the level to be somewhere around the minimum acceptable level. The app could have told me the required specification of the oil, but it didn't. I can't find it in the handbook (yes, I have a PDF I can search rather than ploughing through 300+ pages). The filler cap has no clues.

Happily Halfords have a way of looking it up, it's a 0W-20 synthetic oil (VW 508.00/509.00). But surely the manufacturer should be making this clear ? It's astonishingly thin, I appreciate that this is about fuel efficiency, but to be fair machining tolerances nowadays are way better than they ever were in my old Ford Anglia (for example), so the oil is working in very much smaller gaps.

So this is the first time it has asked for any oil since new. My previous Leon ST (1.4 TSi, 2015) was a bit thirsty at first, but settled down, before that my Passat (1.9TDi, 2005) was VERY thirsty at first, but then settled down. The Passat went to the South of France, and twice to mid-Italy, I would never have considered those trips without a litre of the correct oil hidden in the corner of the boot. But the first Leon was nearly nine years old when we took it very much further South in Italy, I had long stopped worrying about oil consumption by then.

We just traded in a 2014 Polo (1.2 TSi) (for a Skoda EV), I don't recall ever needing to top up the Polo between services. But it was so beset with warranty issues and recalls that it may have got done at the dealership.

 

[Momochi]

Couldn't you find the physical label in the engine compartment?

The owner's manual also mentioned ".... oil consumption can be up to 0.5 l/1000 km...." - ironically the exact phase used in the owner's manual of my previous Audi (EA888 Gen1) which was 17 years older than my 75-reg (EA211evo2) .

 

[SuperV8]

The SEAT app gives the warning "Please add max. N/A of oil. You can drive on". How helpful is that ? Sure enough the dipstick shows the level to be somewhere around the minimum acceptable level. The app could have told me the required specification of the oil, but it didn't. I can't find it in the handbook (yes, I have a PDF I can search rather than ploughing through 300+ pages). The filler cap has no clues.

Happily Halfords have a way of looking it up, it's a 0W-20 synthetic oil (VW 508.00/509.00). But surely the manufacturer should be making this clear ? It's astonishingly thin, I appreciate that this is about fuel efficiency, but to be fair machining tolerances nowadays are way better than they ever were in my old Ford Anglia (for example), so the oil is working in very much smaller gaps.

Oil specification required by engine is clearly in the owner's manual. Books have this helpful section called the Index -

Toyota is currently using a 0W8! oil.

If you are keeping the car I would personally be changing the oil more often than two years, even though you are not doing many miles - short journeys and lots of town/stop start driving is classed severe usage as the oil never gets hot enough to burn of contaminants.

 

[Branta]

Yes, I found the label now ! I might have looked there first but I park alongside a hedge and Seat unhelpfully put the bonnet release on the passenger side. More embarrassingly I also now found the reference to the label in the handbook ! But definitely NOT the actual oil specification, just a reference to the label.

 

[nd-photo.nl]

I remember a buddy of mine telling me years ago me his Toyota Prius (I believe 2nd gen) also used 0W20 oil.

@Branta its definitely weird that the oil specification is not clearly defined for the customer to find...

I usually use the oil recommendation feature from a couple oil suppliers like Liquimoly and it also shows 0W20 for your situation

 

[Momochi]

Yes, I found the label now ! I might have looked there first but I park alongside a hedge and Seat unhelpfully put the bonnet release on the passenger side. More embarrassingly I also now found the reference to the label in the handbook ! But definitely NOT the actual oil specification, just a reference to the label.

Thr owner's manual nowadays will not tell you the exact oil specification needed, only referring you to check the physical label in the engine compartment.

The manual only tells you what specs you may use during emergency (e.g. up to 0.5l of VW504 if you cannot find VW508).