Brembo's fitted to FR - Discs warping??

[sharrison14]

HI all,

Recently bought a Leon FR 180 which has had Brembo calipers fitted to the front by the previous owner.

Looking through the reciepts he had changed the discs and pads sept 2008 and i bought it march 2009. The previous guy had done very little miles sice these have been fitted but i soon started racking them up doing circa 1500-2000miles/month.

I soon started to notice a strong shudder from the brakes indicating warped discs, (EBC ultimax discs fitted atm) so changed the discs only with another set of EBC. Brakes were fine, bedded in corectly and run fairly gently for the first 800-1000 miles or so, now they were never hammered but at the end of the day i like to drive my cars and have had a few spirited drives and a couple of hard braking moments but would assume that brembos with EBC 's would more than handle this sort of use???

As you guessed, these discs started to show the same symptoms at around 1500 miles. I contacted the supplier and he offered to replace them putting it down to a dodgy batch.

Along came my new set, i fitted them, used EBC's guide for bedding in then, aware of the continuing problem have drove really carefully with this set making sure they never get really hot at all. Yet again about 1500 miles the shuddering started again??? I then started racking my brains at what it could be and thought maybe the caliper bolts were working loose, check them all and no problems there, so now i havent got a clue whats going on??

CAn anyone offer any advice or throw any light on a porential problem that may be lurking somewhere please?? Can you also confirm the correct disc size for cupra brembo calipers?? IM running 323mm

Thanks in advance!!

Stu

 

[andymac]

i have exactly the same problem on my LCR !

they are the correct size at 323mm

when i bought my car the brembo brakes were warped , so i replaced them with ebc discs (crap) warped after months (after being run in correctly) supplier replaced them with another set , and yet again after a few months they warped again !

ebc are crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i may look in to buying discs and bells ! but they are mega pricey

 

[ibizacupra]

ebc AND brembo disks are FINE when used properly

what pads?
what bedding process?

what did the disk surface look like? mottled? blue? spotty surface?
often pad pickup onto disk face makes for horrible judder like warp, but not warp

if you are overheating them, or using pads inadequate for your use, then this can happen.

Proven working combo is ultimax & ds2500s, BUT these are not indestructable, and are still only 1-piece disks are WILL overheat when abused. Alternate driving style OR 2-piece rotors........ NOTHING is driver proof if you dont treat them within their operating range.

EBCs vs Brembo OE are comparible... spending double on Brembo is not going to guarantee any thing better, just a worse off wallet.

 

[sharrison14]

Badger 5, thought i recognised it somewhere..... the original ultimax discs and pads were bought from yourselves my friend by the previous owner.

The setup was ultimax and ds500s too mate. The surface didnt look discoloured or nothing atall, no pitting or spotting in view.

I havent yet stripped the calipers down or even changed the pads as yet with the 2 replacement sets of discs fitted yet, would that be a good place to start??

Like i say above, the car has not been put under any mega strain braking wise, but i would expect this set up to handle track use, which would be far more extreem than fast road use....??

The replacement EBC discs used are the same as i have fitted to my 400+ BHP subaru and i havent had a problem with them, even on the track, hence why i think it is not the discs that are the ptroblem.

ANy further advice would be much appreciated.

Rgds

Stu

 

[sharrison14]

Sorry, the bedding in process used was as shown when you search for the ebc guide to bedding in on google. Accompanied with that i drove circa 500 miles with NO hard breaking on the 1st replacements and nearly 1000 miles before i was subjected to brake hard with the second set.

Thanks

 

[sharrison14]

Right, bit of an update:-

After a few tests to and from work today, i have established the following which make me believe further that it is not warped discs that is the problem:

Under light braking when cold - No vibration whatsoever
Under light braking when warm - Slight vibration
Usual medium braking under normal driving conditions - bad vibrations
Under hard braking when warm - no vibrations whatsoever.

Im thinking im going to strip the brakes down, clean everything up, grease the sliders etc and rebuild to see if that cures it?

What do you reckon??

Rgds

Stu

 

[sharrison14]

Can anyone offer any more help on this topic at all?? Thanks

 

[ibizacupra]

Badger 5, thought i recognised it somewhere..... the original ultimax discs and pads were bought from yourselves my friend by the previous owner.

The setup was ultimax and ds500s too mate. The surface didnt look discoloured or nothing atall, no pitting or spotting in view.

I havent yet stripped the calipers down or even changed the pads as yet with the 2 replacement sets of discs fitted yet, would that be a good place to start??

Like i say above, the car has not been put under any mega strain braking wise, but i would expect this set up to handle track use, which would be far more extreem than fast road use....??

The replacement EBC discs used are the same as i have fitted to my 400+ BHP subaru and i havent had a problem with them, even on the track, hence why i think it is not the discs that are the ptroblem.

ANy further advice would be much appreciated.

Rgds

Stu

Track use and all bets are off for one piece disks

One piece disks overheat on these setups, and you will have to consider the disks consummables if using them for such use. additional ducting to the brakes to help cool will all help when they're being used heavily.

There is no disk made which does'nt have limits, and they will all fail at some point no matter which brand you go for. The EBC setup is comparible to Brembo OE, but 1/2 the price which eases the wallet strain when and if they get cooked.

you cannot compare different fitment disks on different cars.

LC/LCR's are servo a lot which makes the pedal effort req'd, vs work being done at the caliper feel easy, when in reality they are working their socks off trying to stop a 1300kg+ car from high speed.

 

[ibizacupra]

Sorry, the bedding in process used was as shown when you search for the ebc guide to bedding in on google. Accompanied with that i drove circa 500 miles with NO hard breaking on the 1st replacements and nearly 1000 miles before i was subjected to brake hard with the second set.

Thanks

I have posted a guide for DS2500 bedding in process... in badger5 section. If these are the pads you are using I would follow that not the EBC guide personally

introducing a heat cycle progressively is key... low use milage is not correct for DS2500's as you are not building the heat cycle into them progressively.

if you are getting vibrations, check your tyre pressures, and ball joints, wishbone bushes for wear as there may be some oscillations going on under load.

 

[LEE69]

grease the sliders

The brembos don't have sliders.

 

[lordgibbness]

I've only had this on one set of brembo discs, that I think I caused myself when I was bedding them in. I think I was braking to slow down for roundabouts and then would stop braking and then brake again when nearer to the roundabout.

I think this caused the pad surface to transfer to the disc in a bad way. When I got the discs replaced I made sure that I braked smoothly all the way to the roundabout, and never had the problem again. I also don't sit with my foot on the brake at a junction either, if I can use the handbrake instead, which lets them cool down.

 

[sharrison14]

Sorry people, thank you for your help so far but i still dont really know what is wrong with my brakes though and how to solve it???

Im aware that all discs have limits, and i have not used this car on the track nor has it even been subject to any extreem braking on the open roads either as this problem has been bugging me since day one of owning the car.

This problem only arises after about 1500 miles of the new discs been on the car each time, and is eliminated each time i have replaced the discs therefore it cannot be a ball joint or tyres (which have already been checked also) as this vibration would occur all the time.

It makes sense to me what i read on another thread where someone has stated that the build up of pad dust on the face of the discs, or something within the caliper not free enough to move with the pad as it wears (originally assumed they had sliders) or maybe the pads have actually glased over cuasing friction with the discs thus vibrating.

Can anyone confirm these theories at all please?

Many thanks for your help so far though gents.

Stu

 

[ibizacupra]

there are stainless steel slide plates on the calipers which can dust up.. brake cleaner spray may help clean them up.

brake technique is a possible.. what you describe is not common at all, so something else may be amiss

 

[lordgibbness]

If you're sure you don't do some kind of on-off braking technique then perhaps do a full caliper and hub cleanup with new/skimmed discs and try again?

 

[AlexGSi2000]

Hi Sharrison,

I had the same problem.

As others have said I would strip down the callipers and service them.
You may have for example one or two sticky pistons on one caliper so the other is doing all the work...causing the disk to overheat...??

Iv recently done my brakes, I got ferodo ds2500 pads with brembo disks which I had grooved.
Upon taking out the pads I found I had a few split seals, three sticky pistons (2 on one caliper, 1 on the other)

I managed to find somewhere I could get replacement seals (there like rocking horse poo) and rebuilt the calipers (Not hard to do at all)
Then pressure bled the system using an ezbleed kit from ebay.

Iv only had the brakes on for about 100 miles, but they seem much better, only time will tell I suppose as to whether they stay like that.

I know the frustration though, you think that with Brembos you would have a set of decent brakes... mine used to fade after 3minutes of spirited driving.....