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Cupra - Deciding on gearbox
- Thread starter alper
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I already said I love both, I drive a DSG7 for 5 years now and I would happily have another (be it DSG6 or DSG7) as well as another good manual.
This was intended as a topic for possible issues, not necessarily problems or failures but also particularities that either box might be showing that could affect my decision on one against the other. So far I've only heard of people voting for/against because of personal preference so I take it both behave just fine over the long run and there's not much to discuss over it?
This was intended as a topic for possible issues, not necessarily problems or failures but also particularities that either box might be showing that could affect my decision on one against the other. So far I've only heard of people voting for/against because of personal preference so I take it both behave just fine over the long run and there's not much to discuss over it?
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Have you actually watched the video of the lap record?
https://youtu.be/6w6dTSYzHwU
Strange old dsg box that, maybe he removed the steering wheel shifters and installed a h gate style lever to operate the dsg box
This also reports that the ST did its lap time in a manual: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/seat-leon-st-cupra-280-sets-new-nürburgring-lap-record
All a bit contradictory!
All a bit contradictory!
Have you actually watched the video of the lap record?
https://youtu.be/6w6dTSYzHwU
Strange old dsg box that, maybe he removed the steering wheel shifters and installed a h gate style lever to operate the dsg box
I'll admit I was wrong then, obviously a manual that. Strange most reports say it was a DSG though.
Strange old dsg box that, maybe he removed the steering wheel shifters and installed a h gate style lever to operate the dsg box
Nice find. Off-topic but would be interesting to ask SEAT/Jordi Gene as to why they chose it over the DSG. I mean technically the shifts are faster on any modern auto box compared to the quickest manual without question and almost all modern sports and super cars focused on performance come with (semi)-automatic boxes as standard. Maybe then Jordi could be even faster with a DSG
or just doesn't drive autos?First post here, im looking at maybe getting a 290 5door manual, I currently have a fiesta ST with big brakes and mountune stuff but im going to need 5 door soon and also my PCP deal is coming to an end.
I have been looking and and apparently there is a bit of throttle lag on the down change on the dsg box compared to the manual which is probly a factor. DSG main benefits are from lauch, after that you are carry the extra weight of the DSG, probly negligible until you are a race driver fighting over 10ths of a second that build up to may half a second over such a long lap.
I have been looking and and apparently there is a bit of throttle lag on the down change on the dsg box compared to the manual which is probly a factor. DSG main benefits are from lauch, after that you are carry the extra weight of the DSG, probly negligible until you are a race driver fighting over 10ths of a second that build up to may half a second over such a long lap.
Never heard or experienced anything like that. What sort of "throttle lag" exactly and under which conditions? Is this something you have experienced or just read about? The DSG will be quicker in any acceleration be it from a stand still or rolling. It's one of the reasons stage 1/2 1.4 TSIs do fine against manual cars with as much as 30-50bhp more on rolling acceleration drags.
If it's on the same car, the DSG is usually even faster than the official figures suggest because the DSG driver will get it done perfectly (nothing much to do really) 11 times out of 10 whereas the manual driver will more often lose or at least don't perform ideally maybe one change out of 3 or 4. And even of all are done as quickly as possible, the tenths gained from all those changes by the DSG will mean it will be ahead.
Personal preference I can perfectly understand but there isn't really a point in discussing which is faster. I could be getting a manual as well but it would be for reasons other than being faster than the DSG, I would be fooling myself If I believed that.
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thread about lag on here, I cant link it until I do 15 posts. :/
the driver spends most his time in 3rd and 4th anyway on the sub 8 lap so maybe he doesn't want the gearbox to upshift unexpectedly at the redline.
don't really car about whats quicker, whenever. just saying what he used. oooohhhhhhhh 0.2sec quicker to 60 at the traffic light gp.
the driver spends most his time in 3rd and 4th anyway on the sub 8 lap so maybe he doesn't want the gearbox to upshift unexpectedly at the redline.
don't really car about whats quicker, whenever. just saying what he used. oooohhhhhhhh 0.2sec quicker to 60 at the traffic light gp.
I believe the DSG is 0.1 seconds quicker to 60 than the manual (as Seat website suggests) I have also read a couple of articles about the downshift being laggy on the DSG - will try and find them again over the weekend.
Personally, I think it is a matter of personal preference and as long as you are happy with the decision made thats all that really matters.
Personally, I think it is a matter of personal preference and as long as you are happy with the decision made thats all that really matters.
I think DSG failures are few and far between,is it not usually the mechatronics that cause problems if any. Just make sure you service it properly and if you intend to keep it out its warranty,look to take out another with one of the many firms offering them ,
The DSG in my 58'reg Passat cc was quite an eye opener over the ZF box in the previous BMW,but I'd of spec'd both cars with a manual if it was possible .its nice and relaxing for the day to day grind but it never really involved me enough in the driving experience when I wanted to explore the Rev's and the limit of the cars.a plus for DSG from what Iv read is the clutch packs will handle a lot more torque than the manual clutch,so it appeals to the tuners amongst us,I always thought enthusiasts would seek a manual till I noticed a lot of the vag owners prefer the DSG for some reason,(for most it's the traffic light GP that matters and pub bragging rights)
Reference to the ring lap time and using a manual over a DSG,I'm sure the manual would of been used over the DSG mainly because the competition are all manual(Meg,Type r,etc and that's the whole point of the timed lap) that and doesn't the diff work better under load so there's quite a bit of downshifting/trail braking/throttle use through the corners so the weight transfer is always forward and the diff is always working its magic
The DSG in my 58'reg Passat cc was quite an eye opener over the ZF box in the previous BMW,but I'd of spec'd both cars with a manual if it was possible .its nice and relaxing for the day to day grind but it never really involved me enough in the driving experience when I wanted to explore the Rev's and the limit of the cars.a plus for DSG from what Iv read is the clutch packs will handle a lot more torque than the manual clutch,so it appeals to the tuners amongst us,I always thought enthusiasts would seek a manual till I noticed a lot of the vag owners prefer the DSG for some reason,(for most it's the traffic light GP that matters and pub bragging rights)
Reference to the ring lap time and using a manual over a DSG,I'm sure the manual would of been used over the DSG mainly because the competition are all manual(Meg,Type r,etc and that's the whole point of the timed lap) that and doesn't the diff work better under load so there's quite a bit of downshifting/trail braking/throttle use through the corners so the weight transfer is always forward and the diff is always working its magic
As bigeeze says Nurburgring is mainly 3rd and 4th gear corners which are easy to shift in a manual. A manual can be held at the limit with out the auto shift meaning the driver Is in control.
Plus dsg fart sounds rubbish
Plus dsg fart sounds rubbish
But, all top motorsport event's, track or rally these days don't have manual's, and if you walk around the pits/paddock your see the driver's own cars don't no longer have manual's, so to me it seems the top professional purist driver's do consider auto's to now be quicker and that you can be in total control of them.
That all said it's still nice for me to jump into a manual now and again, but I'd no longer want to live with one everyday..
As an ex-rally driver I would always have a manual if I were to go back to rallying. But I can't afford to be competitive anymore, so I drive with a DSG. If I ever felt I needed to go back to a manual to be quicker then I'm going way too fast on public roads. Or maybe I've just got a bit too old!
Choose you 'box and enjoy it, and respect other people's choices.
2015 Leon ST FR 184 DSG
Choose you 'box and enjoy it, and respect other people's choices.
2015 Leon ST FR 184 DSG
I'm ordering a cupra next week but I'm completely undecided on DSG. How do you manage when having to quickly downshift on the paddles? I love being able to jump gears when using manuals. What do you do when you're cruising in 6th 40mph and spot that quick straight to get round that kia? Surely by the time you're get the box down to 2nd or 3rd the chance has past?
No need for paddles, just floor it? But get your point, you still have to learn a dsg to get most out, and remember that kickdown won't work if you touched a paddle the last minute or so... Not that advanced driving with a manual is easy, surely at least half of people out there should have an auto just because of their shitty technique with a manual... And that's just normal driving.
I prefer manual. I feel involved and much more aware of which gear I'm in and what speed I'm doing. And there is only one way of doing things, instead of four (D, D paddle override, S, S paddle). Manual gives better references and demands constant attention and as a result I'm less likely to speed unknowingly.
But as the previous speaker said, choose your box and respect other's choices. Can be applied to much in life
SEAT Sport would of disabled autoshift for Jordi if he had wanted.
I've had mine disabled.
Firstly you wouldn't need 2nd or probably even 3rd. 2 quick clicks on the down paddle if you really want full control then ride the wave of torque in 4th, or pull down once on the gearknob which selects sport and will have put you in 4th by itself before you can even touch the indicator, then if you floor it, it'll go like a scalded cat. Alternatively floor it and let the gearbox do its own thing. Each to their own!
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Driving a DSG7 for 5 years I can assure you the described situation is not a problem for a DSG, quite the opposite. Two clicks on the right paddle will get you exactly where you have to be torque wise before even realising you're there, and certainly much faster than getting a stick from 6th to 4th gear, guaranteed. If you want to be ridiculous about it you can even click 3 times, just make sure it's clear ahead of you
Really, it's THAT quick. You don't have to wait for intermediate gears to engage or anything or make sure it's "smooth", click-click-click and you're there, quicker and easier than with any manual. People forget that the DSG is more like a clutch-less manual (I mean the pedal, not the actual clutches inside) which just allows you to pick gears much quicker, rather than a boring old torque converter which I agree is not driver involving at all. It's just like the good becoming better. You can still have all the manual control and engine braking you want (ok minus the upshift on redline but that's a problem only on the track). Nothing to do with traditional autos which are now beocming extinct anyway.To be honest, even after all that time I still haven't got used to how quickly it shifts. In particular, there are situations where I think I have to shift up or down quickly, my mind sends the order and I take my eyes slightly off the road to check that the desired gear will be engaged and the gear is already engaged which usually puzzles me and get mes wondering: was I already one gear up/down? or else how did it shift so quickly? Does anybody else get that from time to time?
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