EA288 184hp 2.0 Diesel - Oil Burning - your findings?

[leonfr89]

I've just today changed my PCV so hopefully that with a change of oil should sort the situation. As you can see the old one below was pretty distorted

 

[Compo1]

I've just today changed my PCV so hopefully that with a change of oil should sort the situation. As you can see the old one below was pretty distorted

So the PCV you ordered off eBay fit ok ?

Don't supposed you have part number for the injector seal, do you ?

 

[leonfr89]

The eBay PCV fitted fine. The link I used was

4x Elring Fuel Injector Nozzle Seal Kit For Audi | eBay UK

4x Elring Fuel Injector Nozzle Seal For Mercedes BenzNewBrand new stock from an authorised Elring supplierO/E genuine specDirect replacementFully guaranteedPlease use compatibility guide or message us through your eBay account if you are unsure about fitting.

www.ebay.co.uk

This was for the injector O rings and washer. Should be noted the end washer seemed a little thicker than the one that came out on the injector, however I can't say whether it's because it had been flattened when tightened up

The PCV part was

For Audi Vw Seat Skoda 1.6 2.0 3.0 TDI Valve Cover PCV Valve Membrane 03L103469 | eBay UK

Skoda Fabia II (2011-2015) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Octavia II (2009-2013) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Superb II (2008-2015) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Yeti (2010-2018) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Rapid (2013-2019) 1.6 TDI.

www.ebay.co.uk

I bought some injector seat seals however the old ones looked in such decent condition I left them as is

I took it out for a drive and it's been ok so far. That was only half hour or so drives though

 

[Compo1]

The eBay PCV fitted fine. The link I used was

4x Elring Fuel Injector Nozzle Seal Kit For Audi | eBay UK

4x Elring Fuel Injector Nozzle Seal For Mercedes BenzNewBrand new stock from an authorised Elring supplierO/E genuine specDirect replacementFully guaranteedPlease use compatibility guide or message us through your eBay account if you are unsure about fitting.

www.ebay.co.uk

This was for the injector O rings and washer. Should be noted the end washer seemed a little thicker than the one that came out on the injector, however I can't say whether it's because it had been flattened when tightened up

The PCV part was

For Audi Vw Seat Skoda 1.6 2.0 3.0 TDI Valve Cover PCV Valve Membrane 03L103469 | eBay UK

Skoda Fabia II (2011-2015) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Octavia II (2009-2013) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Superb II (2008-2015) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Yeti (2010-2018) 1.6 TDI 2.0 TDI. Skoda Rapid (2013-2019) 1.6 TDI.

www.ebay.co.uk

I bought some injector seat seals however the old ones looked in such decent condition I left them as is

I took it out for a drive and it's been ok so far. That was only half hour or so drives though

Cheers mate .

Think ill do my PCV shortly when i do my oil change ive no oil residue in the pipework so ill be it as preventative maintenance.

 

[BenT]

Long post alert here... but my first here. Hooray.

I bought my Octavia 2.0 184 CUPA TDI 2 years ago with 140,000 miles on the clock, gave it an engine flush and service (with Castrol Edge 5W30) and found it was guzzling its way through a litre of that every 500 miles. All while being driven very gently, too! The DPF was blocked with oil ash so that was removed, cleaned and refitted. 15,000 miles later it was getting blocked up again and, given that it's a pig of job to remove, thought I'd rebuild the engine while it was off for cleaning.

Here's what I found when I took the engine apart:

1) 2 x valve stem oil seals just starting to weep. Wouldn't have contributed any noticeable oil consumption though. Head replaced anyway due to snapped glow plug (oops)

2) Cylinder bores polished, honing barely visible, lipped at the top (more on this later)

3) Big end upper shell bearings worn to the copper and 100 µm thinner than the lower (pristine) bearing shells

4) Piston skirts heavily worn, black (PTFE?) coating largely worn off and central area of the coated regions were so heavily worn that the cross hatching for PTFE adhesion was worn away and polished!

5) Piston ring to groove clearances within new specs

6) Top compression ring end gap 0.36 mm above cylinder "lip", 0.44 mm at all other locations in the cylinders. Hence just within new spec. above lip

7) Second compression ring end gap was just into part worn region but I can't remember the actual value

8) Oil scraper ring end gaps of 0.73 mm (wear limit is 0.75 mm), 95 % of drain holes completely occluded by carbon deposits

9) Inserting piston rings into bores "side on" at various positions up and down the cylinders, measuring the end gap each time, did not show any taper or ovality with my cheapo feeler blades! Proper equipment may have revealed something

Given the amount of wear found and due to time constraints, I figured that most of the other engine components were likely worn too (injectors, fuel pump, turbo, DMF, gearbox etc. etc.) so I opted to hone the cylinders myself, clean up the pistons and re-use (with new Goetze rings). I replaced the big end shell bearings, head gasket and bolts, intake and exhaust gaskets, big end bolts and cam frame bolts. I really wanted to have the block rebored with new oversize pistons, but didn't want to spend the money perfecting the bores when the rest of the engine's getting leggy anyway. So, what was the result? It's now using 1 litre of oil every 3,000 miles on 0W30 Shell oil. There is a slight leak from the oil return pipe flange from the turbo which will be contributing to this, but not much. On the plus side, it starts much better, is using around 10 % less fuel than before the rebuild and does sound less rattly. I've noticed the intake's starting to get a little oily so will be doing something about the PCV soon, but again I don't think this'll make much difference. Given the holistic nature of the wear, the many stone chips on the front bumper and the first owner's liking for front brake discs and pads I'm guessing it was driven with some considerable verve in it's early life. It was serviced only every 20 K miles too. This may all be a factor, or it may not be.

Hope this helps someone. I've got a PCV membrane on order, plus some Liqui moly oil so we'll see if that helps.

 

[BenT]

There's more. I tried a lot of the following so thought I'd give my thoughts on that too!

Genuine SEAT oil filter reduced oil consumption Not tried
Changing to 5w40 reduced oil consumption Reduced consumption from 1 litre/500 miles to 1 litre per 1,200 miles prior to rebuild
Changing to 0w30 reduced oil consumption Currently at 1 litre per 3,000 miles on this post rebuild. Will report back on other oil
A regular 'Italian tune up' reduced oil consumption Hot weather and motorway speeds guzzled oil quicker than anything else, pre-rebuild. Hard driving had no positive effect
Changing to Castrol EDGE reduced oil consumption Not for me! It doubled consumption compared to Ravenol VMP 5W30
Changing to Millers racing oil reduced oil consumption Not tried
Deleting DPF reduced oil consumption Mine was constantly regenerating when I bought it. After cleaning, regened every 250 miles. No effect on oil consumption at all
Oil flush reduced oil consumption No effect whatsoever, even when I removed the injectors and filled the cylinders with injector decarboniser, allowed to soak through, then filled with one brand of engine flush and allowed to soak through and then refilled with another brand and allowed to soak through, all within the space of 24 hours, there was no effect.

My engine was totally worn out AND had blocked oil scraper rings. Perhaps if it was just a scraper ring blockage issue alone then some of the above might have helped. But the three different ring treatments in-situ did nothing. Going forwards, post-rebuild, I'll be servicing every 7,500 miles maximum and doing a flush at each service to try to keep the rings clear. I read an interesting post on GM and Toyota engines from 20 + years ago and some of them had a similar issue. Poor oil flow through the control rings, coupled with high temperatures, apparently allowed the oil to break down inside the rings into carbon, causing ring blockage. The GM rings were the waffle type so not the tiny hole design that we have. Therefore... I'm keeping mine in eco mode to keep the piston temperatures down as much as possible too. I only use full torque now for overtaking. But, it's worth it if it avoids more work further down the line...

 

[Compo1]

I could never make my mind up regarding oils flushes in regard to if your loosening stuff that may block elsewhere.

So i just stick to 5-6000 mile oil changes and a genuine filter.

No one ever seems to mention or use Quantum Seat's oil or am i missing something with that particular oil ?

 

[leonfr89]

I've topped up post PCV membrane swap and am monitoring. I'll likely do an oil service and swap to the 0w30 VW longline stuff with a genuine filter to see if that affects. Past that I have really got the time or engine to be stripping the ending right down.

 

[SuperV8]

Long post alert here... but my first here. Hooray.

I bought my Octavia 2.0 184 CUPA TDI 2 years ago with 140,000 miles on the clock, gave it an engine flush and service (with Castrol Edge 5W30) and found it was guzzling its way through a litre of that every 500 miles. All while being driven very gently, too! The DPF was blocked with oil ash so that was removed, cleaned and refitted. 15,000 miles later it was getting blocked up again and, given that it's a pig of job to remove, thought I'd rebuild the engine while it was off for cleaning.

Here's what I found when I took the engine apart:

1) 2 x valve stem oil seals just starting to weep. Wouldn't have contributed any noticeable oil consumption though. Head replaced anyway due to snapped glow plug (oops)

2) Cylinder bores polished, honing barely visible, lipped at the top (more on this later)

3) Big end upper shell bearings worn to the copper and 100 µm thinner than the lower (pristine) bearing shells

4) Piston skirts heavily worn, black (PTFE?) coating largely worn off and central area of the coated regions were so heavily worn that the cross hatching for PTFE adhesion was worn away and polished!

5) Piston ring to groove clearances within new specs

6) Top compression ring end gap 0.36 mm above cylinder "lip", 0.44 mm at all other locations in the cylinders. Hence just within new spec. above lip

7) Second compression ring end gap was just into part worn region but I can't remember the actual value

8) Oil scraper ring end gaps of 0.73 mm (wear limit is 0.75 mm), 95 % of drain holes completely occluded by carbon deposits

9) Inserting piston rings into bores "side on" at various positions up and down the cylinders, measuring the end gap each time, did not show any taper or ovality with my cheapo feeler blades! Proper equipment may have revealed something

Given the amount of wear found and due to time constraints, I figured that most of the other engine components were likely worn too (injectors, fuel pump, turbo, DMF, gearbox etc. etc.) so I opted to hone the cylinders myself, clean up the pistons and re-use (with new Goetze rings). I replaced the big end shell bearings, head gasket and bolts, intake and exhaust gaskets, big end bolts and cam frame bolts. I really wanted to have the block rebored with new oversize pistons, but didn't want to spend the money perfecting the bores when the rest of the engine's getting leggy anyway. So, what was the result? It's now using 1 litre of oil every 3,000 miles on 0W30 Shell oil. There is a slight leak from the oil return pipe flange from the turbo which will be contributing to this, but not much. On the plus side, it starts much better, is using around 10 % less fuel than before the rebuild and does sound less rattly. I've noticed the intake's starting to get a little oily so will be doing something about the PCV soon, but again I don't think this'll make much difference. Given the holistic nature of the wear, the many stone chips on the front bumper and the first owner's liking for front brake discs and pads I'm guessing it was driven with some considerable verve in it's early life. It was serviced only every 20 K miles too. This may all be a factor, or it may not be.

Hope this helps someone. I've got a PCV membrane on order, plus some Liqui moly oil so we'll see if that helps.

Really interesting feedback - thanks for sharing.
Many manufactures are suffering similar fate using these stupid oil control rings! along with ridiculous oil change intervals!
Did you take the engine out - or do the work in situ?

 

[BenT]

Really interesting feedback - thanks for sharing.
Many manufactures are suffering similar fate using these stupid oil control rings! along with ridiculous oil change intervals!
Did you take the engine out - or do the work in situ?

Apparently the PSA/Volvo D40s also have this issue... Just an anecdote though.

And no, all work was done in situ. The prescribed way of removing the DPF module is to lower the subframe and then drop it out, but I can't do this on my driveway so I disassembled the module in the car, took the engine off its offside mount then pulled the whole engine forward so I could remove the cat and DPF separately from above. It's an 4rse of a job though.

The rest of the work was quite easy, injectors removed, valve cover, cam module, then the cylinder head. Then removed the sump, undid the conrod bolts and pushed the pistons up and out. What I really wanted to do was fit EA189 pistons and rings from e.g. a CEGA engine as an ultimate resolution, but I wasn't sure if the 189/288 engines use the same crank so I wussed out and kept it stock. If my oil consumption starts to get worse then I will be giving this a whirl though.

I know nothing about engine oil so I can't comment on the change interval. But, I did read in a research article some time ago that soot's quite corrosive and this engine really does blacken its oil VERY quickly. Far quicker than my 20 year old BKD does. So perhaps the oil does need frequent changing.

I also wonder if the soot buildup in the scraper rings actually contacts the cylinder walls and wears them. It seems strange to me that my #1 and 2 compression rings were virtually unworn, but the bores and oil scrapers were worn out. Perhaps this is an explanation...

 

[Pinky]

Interesting. Thanks Ben for your info.

Fwiw - bought my 184 new Nov 15. 105k miles now. 75% of it's usage has been a 50 mile each way, mostly motorway commute in Eco mode, at 65mph. Serviced by Seat until year 5, then by me yearly. I can't say if it used oil at new because I didn't check but I did follow the run in procedure. The car has had regular either Millers or Hydra fuel additive since new.

It does use oil. It has never had any leaks. It's never used enough to be a big problem, i've just topped it up when needed. It's had no emmission or DPF problems. Basically it drives like it did new, with less boot rattles.

When I asked my Seat dealer about it, they said the rings are sized/designed for max economy/minimum friction. This allows a little oil into the combustion. *I am not stating this as fact, merely passing what I was told*

It's due an oil change today so I will try to monitor consumption once it's done, but I use it a lot less than I did.

 

[MartinThorn]

Have to regularly add oil to my 184hp 2.0TDI.. haven't measured the exact amount/miles but it's probably about 250ml per 1500 miles (total 102,000 miles covered). If it gets worse I'll start a spreadsheet.. On the upside I guess the oil is getting constantly refreshed!

 

[piggasinnaris]

Update for me.

After around 2,000 miles since my last post, checking my oil today reveals it's about 50% on the stick, which to my understanding equates to about 500ml/half a litre. It's very weird how it's not moved, at all, until my recent check. (I check my oil every time I drive now, bit of a faff but wanting to keep track!)

So it's consumed roughly 500ml in 2000 miles, mixture of motorway driving and slow pootling about. I will say though my crankshaft seal is leaking so this will be contributing somewhat - ignoring it until my timing belt is due in about 13k.

 

[BenT]

I've just replaced the PCV membrane (and outer plastic cover) on mine - the injectors do have to cone out for this as the cover needs to be pulled forward to remove and the injector clamp bar gets in the way. The engine in the YouTube video earlier in the thread looks to be a 1.6 based on the Delphi injectors (the 2.0 engines use Bosch ones), with a slightly different PCV cover too. My car's exhaust now smells more oily than before, so I'm not convinced it's been a success

 

[piggasinnaris]

I've just replaced the PCV membrane (and outer plastic cover) on mine - the injectors do have to cone out for this as the cover needs to be pulled forward to remove and the injector clamp bar gets in the way. The engine in the YouTube video earlier in the thread looks to be a 1.6 based on the Delphi injectors (the 2.0 engines use Bosch ones), with a slightly different PCV cover too. My car's exhaust now smells more oily than before, so I'm not convinced it's been a success

Interesting. I've just bought a new PCV thing off the back of this thread as I noticed there was some oily residue around it on mine... so you aren't convinced its achieved much? I'd rather not go to the effort of taking injectors and clamps off if it's pointless.

(I'll be honest, I'm always extremely sceptical of 'unbranded chinese eBay car parts that have no OEM equivalent' like this... if VW intended the thing to be a consumable/replaced on its own, they'd sell one.)

 

[BenT]

Update for me.

After around 2,000 miles since my last post, checking my oil today reveals it's about 50% on the stick, which to my understanding equates to about 500ml/half a litre. It's very weird how it's not moved, at all, until my recent check. (I check my oil every time I drive now, bit of a faff but wanting to keep track!)

So it's consumed roughly 500ml in 2000 miles, mixture of motorway driving and slow pootling about. I will say though my crankshaft seal is leaking so this will be contributing somewhat - ignoring it until my timing belt is due in about 13k.

The sump on these engines is cuboidal. Therefore, the drop in level should be commensurate with the amount of oil used. But, since the engine sits at an angle under the bonnet, from the side on the sump shape would look more triangular (i.e. wider at the top and narrower at the bottom). Therefore, a greater volume of oil will be needed to effect a drop when the sump's full. This might give the impression that the loss of oil becomes more rapid as the sump empties. Hope that makes sense! My driveway slopes such that the engine is level when parked there and the level drop is nice and linear. Parked on the flat, it drops off slowly to start with and then accelerates as it drops.

 

[BenT]

Interesting. I've just bought a new PCV thing off the back of this thread as I noticed there was some oily residue around it on mine... so you aren't convinced its achieved much? I'd rather not go to the effort of taking injectors and clamps off if it's pointless.

(I'll be honest, I'm always extremely sceptical of 'unbranded chinese eBay car parts that have no OEM equivalent' like this... if VW intended the thing to be a consumable/replaced on its own, they'd sell one.)

It's actually hard to tell. I always get an oily smell from the exhaust inside the car when pulling up to junctions/stopping at traffic lights for the first half mile or so from a cold start, but goes away when the cats warm up. It's actually been worse since I replaced the membrane, but there could be other factors at play! I'll keep an eye on the oil level and report back though. I'm also going to replace the oil with Liqui Moly semi-synthetic 5W-30 this week to see if this does anything. I think the job took me half an hour, but angle-tightening the injector clamp bolt is heart attack inducing in case it snaps in the head! Always replace the bolt. And BOTH injector copper crush washers. They don't seal properly once disturbed. Been there, bought the t-shirt...

 

[SuperV8]

It's actually hard to tell. I always get an oily smell from the exhaust inside the car when pulling up to junctions/stopping at traffic lights for the first half mile or so from a cold start, but goes away when the cats warm up. It's actually been worse since I replaced the membrane, but there could be other factors at play! I'll keep an eye on the oil level and report back though. I'm also going to replace the oil with Liqui Moly semi-synthetic 5W-30 this week to see if this does anything. I think the job took me half an hour, but angle-tightening the injector clamp bolt is heart attack inducing in case it snaps in the head! Always replace the bolt. And BOTH injector copper crush washers. They don't seal properly once disturbed. Been there, bought the t-shirt...

I changed my membrane - didn't have an oily smell before or after change.
I seem to remember mixing and matching the parts with cleaned old parts to get a good fit for the new diaphragm?

Parents had a Ford Cmax with a leaky injector seal which used to smell in the cabin.

 

[BillyCool]

This is a really interesting thread.

2014 184 ST (CUPA) 149,000 miles.

Does use some oil. Maybe 500ml every 2000 miles? I'm not really tracking but deffo needs monitoring. Doesn't seem to be excessive from what I'm seeing elsewhere. Some would say it's "normal".
Car gets an annual (c.10,000 mile) service at garage and I change oil and filter in between at 5,000 miles.
Always fit a Bosch oil filter.
Was using Total Quartz INEO Long Life 5W30 Engine Oil - ACEA C3, API SP - Low SAPS 507 oil and that worked well. Due to my regular oil changes I have switched to FANFARO LSX 5W30 C3 LONGLIFE – VW504/50700 to save some money. Jury is out if this needs topping up any more or if it's a better/worse oil. I did try Mannol in the past but got put off it so stopped using it. I have no idea about oil and it's quite brand driven at times, trying to convince you to spend more £££'s.
DPF regens are usually 120 miles or so. My commute to work is 7 miles and oil temp barely gets up to speed, so hardly surprising. When I do longer runs (mainly airport trips), I'm getting 180 miles per regen, so noticeably better.

December last year it had a new rocker cover and injector seals. It had a slight oil leak and that seemed to help.

In terms of the questions:

Genuine SEAT oil filter reduced oil consumption Not tried
Changing to 5w40 reduced oil consumption Always used 5w30 507 oil so don't know
Changing to 0w30 reduced oil consumption Always used 5w30 507 oil so don't know
A regular 'Italian tune up' reduced oil consumption Can't say I've noticed any difference
Changing to Castrol EDGE reduced oil consumption Used this in early days of ownership - usage on a par with the Total Quartz
Changing to Millers racing oil reduced oil consumption Not tried
Deleting DPF reduced oil consumption Not tried
Oil flush reduced oil consumption Not tried but I do have some and will try on next interim oil/filter change (my mechanic recommends you do it).

A lot of us are in the same boat. My car is ex-company car and was on ther 20,000 service "plan" . I don't think that helped it in the early days. I do think that regular oil/filter changes can help prolong the engine and the oil usage is just how it is. Mine isn't getting worse and the car still runs well.

Having gone from a nice sensible Mk1 PD engine that did 220,000 miles (original exhaust and clutch) barely missing a beat (and NO oil consumption), I find the Mk3 and EA288 to be slightly over-engineered. I've certainly spent far more on the various stupid items such as heater matrix, electronic water pump, thermostat and (plastic) housing, (plastic) rocker cover and so on. Not had the cluch done yet but it will happen eventually.

I have no interest in the Mk4 Leon. An Octavia VRS estate looks good but current 2nd hand values are mental. I'll stick with what I've got for now.

Sorry about the essay but I really enjoyed reading the comments.

 

[SuperV8]

I have gone though this thread - and added a couple more from a Skoda forum where users have confirmed usage and mileage for their EA288, and I converted them to L/1000miles so we are all using the same units.
My own usage is an average of 0.26 over 40,000 miles and 4 years - and varies from 0.16 - 0.35 seems to depend on usage.
We can keep this list updated with any new data.

Discounting the high usage of >0.8 that is an average usage of around 0.25L/1000miles. Shall we call this 'normal'

The VAG max allowance is laughable!
Personally I think I would be concerned at anything above 0.40 - 0.50L/1000miles oil consumption.
As I mentioned previously - this does not include any oil dilution! which no one will know unless the are doing regular used oil analysis, but hopefully would be minimal if you avoid frequent cold starts/short journeys.

Name	L/1000miles	Mileage	Comments
VAG max allowance!	0.80
No noticeable oil use	<0.10		If you did 10,000 per year and the low oil light didn't come on:
SuperV8	0.26	140,000
Compo1	0.25	69,000
SteveGSXR600K1	0.14	72,500
BenT	2.00	140,000	before rebuild with piston rings
BenT	0.83	140,000	before rebuild changing to 5w40
BenT	0.33	140,000	after rebuild with new piston rings
Saints92	0.28	140,000	from Skoda forum
Alvis	0.80	100,000	from Skoda forum with failed piston
MartinThorn	0.17	102,000
piggasinnaris	0.25	87,000
BillyCool	0.25	149,000
bojlihal	0.48	105,000