Engine Airfilter - what is all this about "cold climate"?

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
As per the thread title, I have some free time now and was about to change my engine airfilter and thought it was just a matter of a short trip to the local car parts shop, grab one from the shelf and off we go...

....well, not so simple, it seems.

They have about 5 different options for my car, but what is really puzzling me is that two of them have a note of "for cold climate" (or something along those lines, since I am not a native Finnish and my language skills sometimes let me down)

I had never heard about this difference/variation before - can anyone shed some light? Hopefully, not taking a guess, as I am ;)
If I had to guess, I would assume that the "cold climate" version is made of a different material (maybe not paper or a higher grade of paper) and the porosity between both is different.

I am almost ready to pay more and just get it from the dealership parts section to make sure I get the right thing...
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
Answering my own question, in case someone ever has the same existential question:

At the dealership they told me they only have one filter, no cold climate anything, but they asked 33€... I politely declined ;)

Then at the local car parts shop, "regular" filter was 15€ and "cold climate" 20€, so I simply paid to find out - the "cold climate" filter has a pre-filter, I assume to soak any possible water ingress.
...now we know :)

Photos under and I guess you can figure which is which - incidentally, they are both Mann manufactured, with the difference being that the one in the car was VAG branded and the replacement had a generic Mann part number.

CTV6yP8.jpg


X0uLOvm.jpg
 

NotSoSimple

Simple
Mar 3, 2017
243
17
Suffolk
Ahh, thats clever - though im not sure exactly how much water you will get in the air-box that doesn't fall straight out the bottom

I have a cold air intake and do worry about running the engine whilst being jet washed!
 

xyz

Full Member
Feb 28, 2004
565
204
oxford
Visit site
I have a Golf R which uses the same basic engine as the Cupra. Now I know for a fact that there’s a snow guard in the air intake system and removing it can slightly change the performance. Perhaps there are different filters to suit cars with or without snow guards? Not sure but just a theory of mine!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
I watched a video this week where they tested a Porsche with a regular paper filter and then with a less restricted "Performance filter"...
...guess what? The regular paper filter performed better - actually, this is not the first time I have seen and/or heard about comparative tests that say the intake doesn't matter that much for performance as we think it does.
That said, I not only for sound or looks, I have also an intake upgrade on the list of to-do things a few years down the road ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: xyz

xyz

Full Member
Feb 28, 2004
565
204
oxford
Visit site
I watched a video this week where they tested a Porsche with a regular paper filter and then with a less restricted "Performance filter"...
...guess what? The regular paper filter performed better - actually, this is not the first time I have seen and/or heard about comparative tests that say the intake doesn't matter that much for performance as we think it does.
That said, I not only for sound or looks, I have also an intake upgrade on the list of to-do things a few years down the road ;)

Performance filters worked well on older cars which didn’t have ECUs. I had an XR3i and I easily improved its performance by putting in a panel filter, a 3” stainless steel exhaust connected to a tubular manifold, different spark plugs and better plug leads. It would easily out pull cars with larger engines and sounded great. Now though, I think everything has to be geared towards remapping the ECU - no good putting in a performance air filter and letting More air in if the engine doesn’t know what to do with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaco2k

Pew.

Active Member
Mar 23, 2012
1,451
142
Scotland
"performance" panel filters make a difference, you can't deny air flow is better with them.....

However....in terms of overall performance and you driving the car do they, on their own, make any noticeable difference. No, they do not.

Buy a stock car, do nothing but change the panel filter = nothing.

Buy a stock car, remap it, upgrade the downpipe and exhaust and add a new panel filter, sure it'll maybe give you an extra bhp or two.

Point is, on their own, they're pointless. You buy a cone for the noise, nothing else, you buy a panel filter for the sake of not changing it for 60k nothing else.
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
Actually, there is another point we still did not touch - more air flow comes at the expense of more porosity (is this a word?) and that in turn means more impurities entering your engine. I am not so into that...
Also, the K&N panel filters risk letting oil in and screwing up the MAF (happened to me with a new filter, that had not been serviced)
Dunno, pros and cons for everything. I guess there are more important mods to do over a panel filter, as was mentioned and then when/if the need arises, consider to upgrade the whole intake system, along with the exhaust.
 

Pew.

Active Member
Mar 23, 2012
1,451
142
Scotland
Not sure more impurities is an issue, the "performance" ones usually have more layers of filtrstfil and claim to capture even smaller bits of debris. The foam ones even more so....

I've heard of maf sensors being covered in oil from the likes of K&N fikter. Usually when manufacturma they're a little heavy handed on the oil. Best advise there is to either wipe some off when you receive it, or clean it completely and re-oil it yourself before install.

Or don't bother oiling at all, not sure what benefit it adds
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jaco2k

Pew.

Active Member
Mar 23, 2012
1,451
142
Scotland
I had ones many moods ago on a Vauxhall Corsa (don't judge me) and it played havok with the maf, constantly had to keep cleaning it, eventually I washed the fikter, removed all the oil and who knows, could still be in there today !
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderWelsh

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
I had ones many moods ago on a Vauxhall Corsa (don't judge me) and it played havok with the maf, constantly had to keep cleaning it, eventually I washed the fikter, removed all the oil and who knows, could still be in there today !

Oddly enough (...or not) the car I mentioned above that had the issues was a Vectra ;)
 

LouG

Active Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,319
481
Nelson, New Zealand
A low restriction filter will not help if the restriction is the airbox itself. My Suzuki Bandit was a prefect example, opening up intake area in the 'box and tuning fuel to suit easily gave 10hp more without changing the filter itself.
So the question is, is there a restriction in the SEAT system, and where is it?

PS. People often overoil filters, if a little's good, a lot must be better - right?
I've never seen one come overoiled from the manufacturer.
 

ukoldschool

Active Member
Apr 12, 2012
382
55
Not sure more impurities is an issue, the "performance" ones usually have more layers of filtrstfil and claim to capture even smaller bits of debris. The foam ones even more so....
This statement /\/\/\/\ is complete and utter bollocks :cheeky:
 

Pew.

Active Member
Mar 23, 2012
1,451
142
Scotland
Elaborate?

The debris filter bit is what makers claim, and the oil, well that's just what you see on forums etc
 

Wings988

Active Member
Oct 27, 2011
509
59
Derbyshire
Jacko2k Yes Porosity is a word, it means something that is porous which is basically containing air bubbles and hence not air tight. Basically think of a sponge, it has lots of air bubbles in its structure and so is very porous and hence has a high level of porosity.

Back to air filters, way back in my early 20s I had a Rover Metro GTi16v and fitted a piper cross cone filter, it made a huge difference to the performance and also to my delight the induction sound, the oem air box must have been very restrictive. I agree with others though, for modern cars and I wouldn't waste my money on my Cupra, stay oem and if you want extra power then remap.
In a previous job I had I visited a supplier of air and oil filters called FRAM based in Wales. I had a factory tour and they made lots of filters for many oem and also under their own name and Halfords. The only difference between oem filters and Halfords or their own branded ones was the part number on the filter itself and the box it went into. The production line used the same machines and materials for all filters of the same type.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaco2k

ukoldschool

Active Member
Apr 12, 2012
382
55
Elaborate?

The debris filter bit is what makers claim, and the oil, well that's just what you see on forums etc

OK

Not sure more impurities is an issue, the "performance" ones usually have more layers of filtrstfil and claim to capture even smaller bits of debris. The foam ones even more so....

A 'performance' filter by its very design is supposed to allow more air through the intake system.
Putting aside for a moment the discussion about whether any modern car with an ECU that has a map (that is dependant on a pre-programmed amount of air coming into the system), is able to then re-write the program to take advantage of an increase in air (hint - it isn't)..... In order for a filter to flow more air it has to by definition be less restrictive. so its not going to have more layers or better filtration if its less restrictive. You simply cant have one without the other.
 

Pew.

Active Member
Mar 23, 2012
1,451
142
Scotland
I presumed it would come down the materials in use.

So, smaller, but more holes in performance filter compared to larger but less holes in standard. Obviously talking very small measurements but in essence the smaller the holes in the material the smaller debris it can capture but at the same time, maintaining or improving airflow due to larger volume of holes......

As I said above though, I agree they do little, or nothing in most cases for performance, well not on any noticing real world level to the driver.
 

ukoldschool

Active Member
Apr 12, 2012
382
55
I'm pretty sure that AndrewJB on here had a link to a test of OE v 'performance' filters, and the levels of debris that the performance ones let though was really quite concerning, especially given that on the Cupra/FR they go straight into a quite expensive, machines, engineering tolerance turbo charger...