Forge FMIC vs Forge Big Race FMIC - LCR Stage 2

[JamJay]

Hi all,

It's time for an intercooler and after researching for quite a while it seems that Forge charge their premium for a reason, because simply their coolers seem to trump a majority of other installs. Anyway, that's not up for debate, I've made my mind up and I refuse to deal with the hassle of custom made coolers .

So I wanted to ask which cooler would be the best. Obviously the Big Race cooler is bigger, maybe twice the size but does this come at a price i.e more lag? I've been reading a member's build thread with interest and he has reported no pressure drop across the cooler however this is with a hybrid turbo where as mine is (going to be) a lowly Stage 2 K04 for the time being so I'm unsure if this would mean that I see pressure drop or any other negative effects. Will I notice any drawbacks to fitting a cooler this large to my car? Is the Big Race cooler only really for BT applications and a waste of money at lower stages of tune?

I am unsure of the power rating of each cooler, does anyone know them? Judging by the size of the normal Forge FMIC, it looks good for the 350bhp region which is adequate for Stage 2 & Hybrid installs (just) I would say so does that make the Big Race one suitable for 350bhp+, ripe and only really effective for the GT2871 and bigger?

The values of each kit aren't too far apart so cost isn't truely an arguement here although if getting a Big Race one is pointless, every penny in the bank counts and will go towards Stage 2 code.

 

[rsmith]

I installed the Big Race kit yesterday, TBO i haven't noticed any lag at all, i am on full boost by 3400rpm.

Another reason i went for the BR kit is becuase of the surge issues than can occur on the BAM small port engine, i wanted a cooler i could throw a lot of air at without it being a bottleneck.

If you plan on Hybrid or BT, i would 100% go with the big race kit.

Sorry can't say what it is like on an OEM k04 but i am sure other peeps have this setup

 

[traumapat]

Id mention proalloy as very pleased with mine.

Do you know what the current capacity is with the 2 SMICs?


I had to swop my forge to pro alloy as the twists and turns of the set up (twin pass on cupra) created alot of restriction. 279bhp against 320bhp with the better system. Only say this as its worth thinking about when routing the pipes. The cores only half the story.

I wouldnt worry too much mate.... if you go too big on the cooler just fit a bigger turbo.. sorted

 

[_chris_]

I had the big race one on mine. didnt notice any issues with lag. i was stage 2 on standard k04.

 

[JamJay]

I installed the Big Race kit yesterday, TBO i haven't noticed any lag at all, i am on full boost by 3400rpm.

Another reason i went for the BR kit is becuase of the surge issues than can occur on the BAM small port engine, i wanted a cooler i could throw a lot of air at without it being a bottleneck.

If you plan on Hybrid or BT, i would 100% go with the big race kit.

Sorry can't say what it is like on an OEM k04 but i am sure other peeps have this setup

Thanks for the info, it is your thread that I'm watching . I do plan on going for hybrid or BT but things may change and I might just stick at Stage 2 and chop the LCR in at the end of the year so would be good to know the performance difference between Stage 2 K04 with normal Forge FMIC & Big Race FMIC.

Did you notice surge on your OE K04 at Stage 2?

Id mention proalloy as very pleased with mine.

Do you know what the current capacity is with the 2 SMICs?


I had to swop my forge to pro alloy as the twists and turns of the set up (twin pass on cupra) created alot of restriction. 279bhp against 320bhp with the better system. Only say this as its worth thinking about when routing the pipes. The cores only half the story.

I wouldnt worry too much mate.... if you go too big on the cooler just fit a bigger turbo.. sorted

No idea what the capacity of the SMICs are nor the Forge, I can't find the info anywhere.

I've looked into Pro Alloy but theire prices top Forge for the LCR, very expensive kit but no doubt good. So you got an extra 40bhp from a decent intercooler or am I reading right? lol.

I hear what you're saying about the piping, I read that it's bad to have tight bends and the cooler will flow much better with longer pipe work and less bends, is that right? I would imagine that Forge have this right though...

BT next month would be lovely, just a huge hit to the bank balance .

I had the big race one on mine. didnt notice any issues with lag. i was stage 2 on standard k04.

Thanks Chris, did the car feel noticably different compared to the OE SMICs?

 

[seanaldo1987]

if you look on the forge website it states

"For those wishing to gain the maximum increases from their engines where larger turbochargers have been installed, or just want the biggest intercooler available, this has to be the answer"

it shouldn't do any harm

i've turned the boost right up on my revo sps3 and i haven't experianced any increased lag. i'm still only running stage 1 software tho.
my cooler is slightly different to the big race one as i bought a universal one and had it fitted with hardpiping and as little samco bends as possible

role on stage 2 once i get a b5 3" TIP

 

[traumapat]

You only get 40bhp if you started off with spaggetti junction

It suprised me just how much the restriction destroyed the power. At first a leak was suspected but it was pressure tested on the car and seperately at forge and it was fine. turbo was pushed to 1.7bar to get the 279 on the restrictive set up, whereas with a freer flowing system it hit 320 at 1.5bar which was the expected output and result.

All the Lcr options are single pass so its not going to be as much of an issue but its worth knowing, particularly if you make up your own system as many seem to.

Forge is going to be tried and tested including layout and pipework

Thinking about it... wont a single pass FMIC be a huge improvement flow wise vs stock 2x SMIC anyway?

 

[seanaldo1987]

Thinking about it... wont a single pass FMIC be a huge improvement flow wise vs stock 2x SMIC anyway?

it does!!!!!! when i got my car back i could feel the difference, the car just pulled so much harder all the way to the redline. it has made a massive difference on my lowly stage 1 LCR

my car was running 255bhp before i fitted a 3" dp, decat, big jetex cone and the big forge FMIC.

got a rolling road day on the 26th so will see what difference all these mods have made before i go stage 2

 

[JamJay]

if you look on the forge website it states

"For those wishing to gain the maximum increases from their engines where larger turbochargers have been installed, or just want the biggest intercooler available, this has to be the answer"

it shouldn't do any harm

i've turned the boost right up on my revo sps3 and i haven't experianced any increased lag. i'm still only running stage 1 software tho.
my cooler is slightly different to the big race one as i bought a universal one and had it fitted with hardpiping and as little samco bends as possible

role on stage 2 once i get a b5 3" TIP

Thanks for the input . I read their website but just wanted to check that I won't be making a mistake by putting a cooler this large on.

You only get 40bhp if you started off with spaggetti junction

It suprised me just how much the restriction destroyed the power. At first a leak was suspected but it was pressure tested on the car and seperately at forge and it was fine. turbo was pushed to 1.7bar to get the 279 on the restrictive set up, whereas with a freer flowing system it hit 320 at 1.5bar which was the expected output and result.

All the Lcr options are single pass so its not going to be as much of an issue but its worth knowing, particularly if you make up your own system as many seem to.

Forge is going to be tried and tested including layout and pipework

Thinking about it... wont a single pass FMIC be a huge improvement flow wise vs stock 2x SMIC anyway?

That's quite a difference but I don't expect to see those gains, if any . I know you're IHI'd anyhow

The twin intercoolers, IMO, are a bit of a restriction in the system. From a logical perspective at least it seems odd to have the heated charge air go into one small and quite 'warm' cooler (when remapped at least), fill it up and pass through it to get a little bit cooler than it was, then travel down a pipe into another small cooler, fill that up again to cool it a little more before passing out of it and into the cylinder. A single pass FMIC is a much more efficient design, especially making it stone cold by placing it in front of cold air flow.

it does!!!!!! when i got my car back i could feel the difference, the car just pulled so much harder all the way to the redline. it has made a massive difference on my lowly stage 1 LCR

my car was running 255bhp before i fitted a 3" dp, decat, big jetex cone and the big forge FMIC.

got a rolling road day on the 26th so will see what difference all these mods have made before i go stage 2

Your car seems a similar spec and power as mine pre-mods, maybe it's a Yellow thing. Last RR I did was at Stage 1 with air filter so I'm unsure of where it is now but I look forward to seeing your results so I can guage where mine may be in a couple of months.

 

[filbro]

I have the Forge Big Race Intercooler. Any 'lag' difference is marginal over the SMIC. Its nothing to be concerned over.

 

[traumapat]

Agreed , it was more of an example of routing considerations and their importance along with core size and lag issues. Size isnt everything.

Just for the record you dont make more bhp with ICs .... but you can loose it by restrictive routing.