Four Wheel Drive? (VZ2 310)

[Blackstuff37]

Hi every one. Not posted for a while as enjoying my VZ2 310 (except for infotainment system), however the snow has raised a few questions.
This model is four weel drive, right? Then why am I sliding about worse than a front wheel drive car. Missing my Subaru!!
I'm not happy with this at all. I don't have any confidence in the car, I have to creep about or stay at home. Off Road mode makes no difference except reduce revs and gear changing. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

 

[Korefan]

Try to change drive mode.
There is Sport mode of haldex. Maybe it will help you.
Actually I have tested it a bit on the snow: looks like that for haldex to engage - your car should slide a bit (0.5s) as a front wheel drive car and then, if you are pushing the accelerator- the rear end will start to work.
Btw, I'm thinking of visition one of our extreme driving schools. To learn and feel the car ;-)
Of course it will be different from Subaru. Subaru has pernament AWD

 

[oldgitdave]

I assume, like me, you have the Bridgestone Turanza T005 fitted all round? If so these are summer tyres and quite frankly I find them terrible in the summer let alone the winter. I know they get a really good rating online but for me the grip is terrible. Mine's fwd only and wheel spin when pulling off is really common for me. It makes it awkward when trying to get out of a junction quickly. I'm used to it now and manage ok but as soon as I can I'll be changing them for something better, probably going down the all weather route.

 

[Vissa]

Hi every one. Not posted for a while as enjoying my VZ2 310 (except for infotainment system), however the snow has raised a few questions.
This model is four weel drive, right? Then why am I sliding about worse than a front wheel drive car. Missing my Subaru!!
I'm not happy with this at all. I don't have any confidence in the car, I have to creep about or stay at home. Off Road mode makes no difference except reduce revs and gear changing. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

What tyres do you have fitted? When are you sliding about? In rain, snow or in ice?

 

[Blackstuff37]

What tyres do you have fitted? When are you sliding about? In rain, snow or in ice?

Hi Vissa, snow and ice. Wet weather seemes to be quite good. We've had about 14cm (6inch) of snow here, last weekend, and minus temperatures since, and the car just slides everywhere. Tyres are Bridgestone Turanza 245/40R19.
I pulled up slowly to turn into my drive, the other day, and the rear did a 90 degree slide!

 

[Fr2013]

I have the 190 4WD and think it is a bit slidey in snow and frost and ice but I 100% think it’s the tyres. In a straight line if ‘boot’ it in snow it sorts itself out and is pretty good. However cornering is a delicate operation! The car feels very light as a whole in the snow and ice, especially the rear end. Much lighter than our 118i (new version 2021) which is FWD. That strangely instils much more confidence in corners in the snow and ice and also wears summer tyres.

 

[Peyton]

No amount of 4WD will save you if you use summer tyres in the snow or ice. I'm surprised you expected more?

Subaru surely had all season tyres.

 

[rubeck1s]

It's almost 2023 and people still think that ABS & 4WD is a solution to snowy/icy driving conditions. Winter tires, helloooo?? Anyone??

 

[Vissa]

Hi Vissa, snow and ice. Wet weather seemes to be quite good. We've had about 14cm (6inch) of snow here, last weekend, and minus temperatures since, and the car just slides everywhere. Tyres are Bridgestone Turanza 245/40R19.
I pulled up slowly to turn into my drive, the other day, and the rear did a 90 degree slide!

Well, those are summer tyres, and they are way to big and wide for winter wheels. If you switch to dedicated winter wheels with smaller and more narrow winter tyres, it will be loads better. The 4WD system will not help you in snow/ice conditions with these tyres.

 

[Deleted member 135594]

Yes, summer tyres are useless ( and dangerous ) on snow.
I have Dunlop Winter Sport 5 245/40-19 on my winter wheels. Great grip on snow at -18°C

 

[SRGTD]

It's almost 2023 and people still think that ABS & 4WD is a solution to snowy/icy driving conditions. Winter tires, helloooo?? Anyone??

Yes, lots of 4WD owners think they’re invincible and will be able to go anywhere, whatever the weather and road conditions. Not if they don’t have weather-appropriate tyres they won’t.

In this current cold spell, I’ve seen the school run brigade in their ‘Chelsea tractors’ struggling with wheels spinning on snow covered, un-gritted side roads. Given the choice of FWD with winter or all season tyres or a 4WD on summer tyres, I know which I’d go for, and it wouldn’t be the 4WD.

 

[Peyton]

Yes, lots of 4WD owners think they’re invincible and will be able to go anywhere, whatever the weather and road conditions. Not if they don’t have weather-appropriate tyres they won’t.

In this current cold spell, I’ve seen the school run brigade in their ‘Chelsea tractors’ struggling with wheels spinning on snow covered, un-gritted side roads. Given the choice of FWD with winter or all season tyres or a 4WD on summer tyres, I know which I’d go for, and it wouldn’t be the 4WD.

Exactly.

Anyone who doubts this should watch some tire reviews where they compare summer tires with winter tires. Usually summer tires are atrocious in the snow/ice - being almost twice as bad (two times longer stopping times, etc).

4WD is not magical. If your tire has no grip, it can't automagically create it. And when you realize that cars all have 4 wheel braking - and sliding on snow/ice is normal, how would 4WD work better than brakes?

For UK weather I think all season tyres would work great - summers are not extremely hot and any winter does not have huge amount of snow. I am in Croatia and I use a summer tire for warm period and all season (CrossClimate 2) for colder period (we don't get a lot of snow)

 

[Blackstuff37]

Thanks everyone for your views. I said right at the beginning that I am enjoying the car. I also agree and respect all the comments given, especially about all-weather or winter tyres, but I would just like to say, as someone who used to drive many miles annually, in all weathers and many differnt vehicles, that the Formentor is poor in snow and ice, which I would not have expected, being advertised as a 4 wheel drive.
I certainly won't dwell on the fact that Subaru is a very different beast, but I ran that on Goodyear Eagle F1's for over 145,000 miles in all weathers and it was superb in the snow. I have now read much more about the Haldex system, which should really be described as an additional driver aid, not a 4 wheel drive system. That's not a bad thing, but I would have been happier knowing what was "under foot".

 

[Ninjakebab]

I can't even get my FWD Formentor out of control when playing around in the snow. It's pretty good at handling it. Winter tyres of course.

I don't really think you have the ability to declare the car is poor in snow and ice on summer tyres. It's like saying your wife's boobs are ugly, as a blind man.
I would love to try a Subaru in the snow though!

 

[Bear]

I can't even get my FWD Formentor out of control when playing around in the snow. It's pretty good at handling it. Winter tyres of course.

I don't really think you have the ability to declare the car is poor in snow and ice on summer tyres. It's like saying your wife's boobs are ugly, as a blind man.

As usual, I have to agree with Ninj. I've owned a Saab, a Volvo and a Tiguan previously and have not noticed any appreciable difference in my Formentor's handling in slippery conditions however I did feel more confident in my Freelander . I do think (and happy to be told different) that Subaru does have a reputation for superior handling in snow, but I've not driven one of them. @Blackstuff37 - what make and model Subaru did you have?

 

[SRGTD]

@Blackstuff37 - Historically, Bridgestone summer tyres have had a notorious reputation on many forums of not being good during the winter months. I’ve known of performance car owners on some VW forums whose brand new cars were delivered with fitted Bridgestone tyres buy replacement tyres within the first few days of ownership and sell the original ‘as new’ Bridgestones on eBay to recoup some of the cost.

Bridgestone have tended to use quite a hard rubber compound for their performance summer tyres in the past which is OK during the summer months when the weather’s warm and the tyres get up to temperature. However, roadholding and grip is seriously compromised during winter months when the hard compound becomes even harder. My Polo GTI+ was delivered in 2020 with Bridgestones fitted. I’m not a particularly enthusiastic driver but I experienced wheel spin and axle tramp without even trying to provoke it and that was in late summer / early autumn in warmer weather on road surfaces that were barely damp. I bought some new wheels within three months of getting the car and took the opportunity of getting a set of Michelin PS4 tyres; IMHO they are far superior to the factory fitted Bridgestones in every respect and no more issues with wheel spin or tramping.

 

[dashnine]

the Formentor is poor in snow and ice, which I would not have expected, being advertised as a 4 wheel drive.

I think the four wheel drive is from the handling / performance perspective, not being an all weather vehicle. In a similar way to a 911 Carrera 4 being a performance car, not a substitution for a Land Rover.

 

[Peyton]

Nice to see a good, respectful comment.

As you now know, Haldex is not a true AWD - it is a system to help the car maintain traction in hard situations, mostly to maximize acceleration. Subaru probably has a true AWD with inherent losses in that system, it's going to be much better than a Haldex. But on other hand, Haldex when not engaged doesn't really create losses so it should have better fuel mileage.

Also - it's likely Eagle F1 is a better winter tyre than Turanzas.

 

[rsmiech]

Unfortunately, you're right about driving confidence. The traditional FWD car fares better. Compared to the Subaru, where drifting and skidding control comes almost as easily as in games, the Formentor just falls. However, it was not designed for this, the purpose of the drive is to maintain no slippage. The VZ5 version has a different drive and a special mode, but I haven't personally tested it. Mastering the slides in the formentor needs practice, a large, really large, empty square, practice, and practice . First, we turn off ESP with a long press and in my case when learning, mountain mode was better, later it did not matter. The main problem of the formentor is sometimes it loss of the rear axle slip, unexpectedly, even though we are already doing the fifth lap of the barrel rollover almost like Ken Block and then the rear suddenly loses the slip and the car goes wide out in front. Adding gas at this point only worsens the situation, the rear axle doesn't rotate, and we only add energy to the formentor and it leaves by the front axle even wider. This carries a high risk of losing control in narrow spaces. Keep it in mind. Unfortunately, the formentor also does not have a handbrake, which in such a situation would put the rear in rotation again, and also attempts to operate the brake and accelerator at the same time are also not provided by the control system, it cuts the power imidietly. I suggest practicing, but the lack of control over slipping is terrifying, large empty squares are only place for practicing and only places for performances because in a limited space, our mastery can end up with an immortal viral content on YT. Regards. By the way, i tunned my VZ version from stock 310PS to 411BHP. Here

 

[Vissa]

Such a capable engine this GEN4. Amazing.

Did you measured the 0-100 and 100-200 by any chance?