FR TDi Camshaft Replacement Help Please!

[markyboy76]

Hi

Im having bad luck, i bought an 05 Leon FR tdi ARL engine 1 week ago and it lacks a bit of power in higher gears. Been looking for the common faults and have had the rocker cover off to check the cams. The cams are worn on cylinders 1 and 4. They are sharp on the edges and the top of the lobes are worn too. There is a small amount of metal in the surrounding area. It has full service history etc and it aint noisey so didnt suspect when i bought it. Has anyone done this job? did you flush out the engine after etc, what with? Where can I get the parts and a cam counter hold and pulley from? What parts do I need? I am a mechanic so will be able to do it myself.

Any help/info appreciated.

Mark

 

[MJ]

not very common across the seat range at all pal, the cars effected mainly were the mk4 golfs and any vag vehicle on the stupid longlife service regieme.

you shouldnt need the counter hold tool just the locking pins for the cam and crank. flush it with forte engine flush.

you'll need:

cam
hydraulic buckets
shells
rocker shaft bolts
timing belt kit
cam seal

 

[markyboy76]

Thanks

Thanks for that. How do I tighten the cam pulley bolt up? Any idea where to get the parts do they have to be genuine?

 

[MJ]

good engineering places can supply the cam or you can search online i.e ebay.

the cam locking tool will be strong enough for you to crack the pully bolt off then locktight it back on after.

you can buy a holding tool but you might not need it, we have one but the pin is normally good enough.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Draper-Ford-Z...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item230d30409e

 

[markyboy76]

Thanks

I feel more confident now. Is the swarf likely to damage anything else? How much to do the job for me at your place? Its had a new genuine belt on 2 days ago. Does this cam look a good buy?

Ebay item 380305196048

Mark

 

[MJ]

Dunno mate it depends on what you end having fitted, we have cams supplied to us for £300 with the shells and rockers but genuine cams are £400 on there own!

 

[markyboy76]

Yer I guess its hard to say without seeing it. The cams are only very lightly worn, I can feel the profile is incorrect though. I would imagine the parts you suggested would be needed.
It has another fault too, when I drive it, after the turbo has built up its boost, if I let the throttle off I get a strange noise, my wife says a squeek, I would say an air noise, doesnt do it all the time, it is annoying tho. Any ideas? I checked the boost pipes and for anything catching.

 

[rallynut]

I feel more confident now. Is the swarf likely to damage anything else? How much to do the job for me at your place? Its had a new genuine belt on 2 days ago. Does this cam look a good buy?

Ebay item 380305196048

Mark

thought you said you were a mechanic?

 

[markyboy76]

Thanks for that!

Sometimes the benefit of experience is priceless! When somebody is experienced with a particular engine type usually they are familiar with what can happen when they go wrong and what might arise during repair, hence my asking advice! I asked for a price because I want to use the car soon rather than waiting until I am free to strip it down etc, I have no garage or anything. I wondered if it is likely that a small amount of metal filings would damage the engine further etc? Any usefull advice is always appreciated.

 

[adam cupra 20vt]

I've just had this done on mine. I would advise removing the sump and cleaning/replacing the oil pick up pipe as the metal thats worn off had to of gone somewhere....

I removed and stripped the whole head, manifolds etc as I wanted to make sure everything was clean and free of swarf.

As MJ said make sure you lock the crank to and dont just think lining the marks up is enough.......as I learnt the hard way.

 

[Seatmann]

If you are worried about your camshaft here's a good guide for inspecting it. It was a problem in the states apparently on some of the 2005-06 pd tdi cars.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/camshaft-inspection-replace-vw-tdi.htm

 

[markyboy76]

Thanks that's a nice guide. I will clean out the pick up etc for sure, I have considered a recon head, still weighing the whole thing up. Many thanks

 

[phatchoonz1]

Yer I guess its hard to say without seeing it. The cams are only very lightly worn, I can feel the profile is incorrect though. I would imagine the parts you suggested would be needed.
It has another fault too, when I drive it, after the turbo has built up its boost, if I let the throttle off I get a strange noise, my wife says a squeek, I would say an air noise, doesnt do it all the time, it is annoying tho. Any ideas? I checked the boost pipes and for anything catching.

I've done a camshaft and follower replacement on my parents mk4 golf (ARL) after one of the followers had worn right through (others weren't far behind) and ruined the camshaft in the process.
I changed just the shaft and the followers, along with some fresh oil and a new filter immediately after. But if your cambelt hasn't been changed recently, you'll want to think about that too along with a water pump while you've got the belt off it.
After all the reading on the camshaft problem that the ARL's suffer with that I did before hand, apparently this problem only tends to occur on cars built around 02-03 soon after that the followers were modified and hardened properly - as would be the ones you'd buy now. I bought the parts new from the dealer, as for the savings involved in buying elsewhere I didn't want to take the risk with wrong parts or having to do the job again!!

The noise that you mention when you let off the power sounds very much like the variable wastegate vanes sticking in the turbo usually due to soot build up. When you let off the power the air has nowhere to go but force it's way back through the turbo and out the intake creating that noise as it does...
Have a search in the TDi forum - I'm sure there's loads about this problem on there...

 

[markyboy76]

Interesting about the turbo, I did a bit of data logging with VAG com and the boost pressure isn't far off the requested amount, its not spikey or anything like that, the noise tends to happen up hill in 3rd, say if you accelerated up to a car in front then lift off the throttle, I can make it do it, it gets quieter each boost then it stops. It will then come back again 10 mins later if a similar situation happens, it is almost like the boost air has nowhere to go to like you say Martin. Does not do it in 1st gear at all but all other gears it can be heard, obvious in 3rd tho. I got under it today and I can move the turbo linkage with my fingers if I press quite hard, it dosent feel rough as it moves.

 

[Seatmann]

I think the linkage should be free and not hard to move. Here's an article on cleaning etc

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/VNT-turbo-removal-vanes.htm

 

[armo]

2 mates just has this done on a n 02 bora 150 and a 05 leon fr 150, bora got camshaft and injector, price £1070 fitted, leon got cam shaft, lifters, injectors, turbo veins sorted at over £2k, not cheap like but very common by all accounts

 

[markyboy76]

Got it booked into a VAG specialist later in the week see what he comes up with, no time to do myself need it to go to work in etc. Cam replacement quote is reasonble so im not too concerned over it now, for the sake of £200 on top of the parts it aint worth buying tools and getting cold/dirty etc. I just hope the noise aint a new turbo job, it sounds like that pidgeon cooooooo noise, some people make their car do it on purpose for effect! It is only there for a very short period, less than 1 second. I checked out the boost and waste valves for the VNT no faults in VAG com. Vac pipes look good, cat aint rattling, turbo actuator is nice and free to move, its a bit of a puzzle for me. Do you think its meant to do it?

 

[markyboy76]

OK £650 later I have a new camshaft, followers, bearings and seals fitted, engine flushed and oil changed. All seems well so far!

My noise is still there though, its definatey boost related, a whoosh and a suck? Anyone else's do it? Can't see it being a sticky turbo as it boosts fine.

 

[markyboy76]

Sorry to bump the thread again. Got the car on the ramps today after a mate listened to the noise whilst I drove. The noise seems to be a metalic creak. It is there coming off throttle in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear seems to be from the centre of the car behind dash. I tried moving the VNT actuator by hand and noticed that if I push it down hard with my fingers I can hear a loud squeak as it moves. Sprayed WD40 on the linkage, no different. Could this be the vanes in the turbo? It does not feel tight at all. Im going to try disconecting the actuator when I can get to it.

 

[Seatmann]

It sounds like the vanes are a bit sticky, I've read of people using stuff like innotec to save removing the turbo but I don't know what the results are yet. The chances are though that it will get worse and eventually lead to limp mode. The actuator shouldn't be to stiff to move and also should move about an inch.