front subframe

[stevie-g]

does anyone know how difficult it is to fit this????

i got told that i will need to support the weight of the engine is this true??

info would be most appreciated folks

 

[AlpineWhite]

The front engine mount bolts to the subframe that runs from one side of the car to the other.

 

[dmc4087]

I had to lower mine to replace my power steering rack - wasnt a difficult job, just a little time consuming.

I supported the engine with a trolley jack with a big block of wood on top.

 

[jlovie]

I've just had an MOT advisory on front lower suspension arms and front subframe corrosion.
Has anyone priced a front subframe recently?
I believe pattern lower arms are available cheap, but the subframes aren't.
Are scrappy ones likely to be just as bad?

I've had my Mk2 Cupra 8V since new, looks like this might be the death of it next MOT time.
I've become rather attached to it as a cheap hack for the last few years, but at some point I might have to let it die gracefully.
A few other advisories but nothing too serious - I'm just relieved it passed.

 

[m0rk]

I doubt the subframe corrosion is a problem, it's proper thick steel.

Have a look, take it off if required & clean up & paint it.

removal is as easy as dmc4087 suggests

 

[Caffienated]

yups, quite substantial lump of metal. Priced replacement recently, and parts cost was in the neighbourhood of 400 i think. If you do go replacing, watch for the 'bonded rubber and metal' engine and transmission mounts. They're graded and application specific. Your old ones may not be usable after removal...

Randomly I've got a decent spare, no idea about conditon of te mounts tho. Pm if interested!

Also worth noting that the much lighter gauge piece at the front that basically holds the front together is sometimes referred to as subframe... Is more properly a crossmember i'd say.

Engine support beams or hoists are much safer than jacks and wood. If anything slips, you're jam...

 

[Cupra Kid]

As the m0rk has said i doubt some slight surface corrosion will bother the subframe, its bloody thick metal. The rear one on my mazda project is heavily corroded and its been taking the weight of the car on axle stands for weeks. Couldn't even dint it with the hammer. I've stripped it down and hammerited it.

Same goes for the suspension arms

MOT stations seem to be getting more and more picky on items such as these as they want to cover themselves against every possibility in the sue everybody climate we now live in.

 

[Caffienated]

only thing i'd add with the suspension arms is the bushes. They wear.

But 'excessively corroded suspension arm' and 'excessive play in bush' aren't the same fault. Whatever, the arms are only 25 odd quid a piece anyway. Based on my own car, actually getting the bolts into the subframe (the pivot bolt at the front of the arm) is likely to be the problem on that job.

Don't forget to allow for 4-wheel alignment from someone who understands old-school 'dub front ends if taking front end apart in a big way. Up north here, going rate for an indie VW specialist to stick your car on their machine and make any adjustments required seems to be 40 quid. Beware of general tyre places trying to get away with stupid charges to even look at it and then hourly rate to think about adjusting. I've had tyre places promise they've never charges more than £200 for a golf but refuse to give a binding quote...

 

[jlovie]

If I go ahead & fix mine for next year, I'm thinking I might get away with new lower arms but just de-rusting & painting the subframe. I'll ask the garage nearer the time, they're good bods, I know the owner who's a proper hands-on mechanic himself and really helpful with keeping old cars on the road.

I need to have a good look underneath myself, especially with the advice on subframe/crossmember identification.

My advisories do state "corroded but not seriously weakened".

 

[Caffienated]

sounds like a plan.

I'd probably figure on needing replacements for the lower balljoint pinch bolts, and make sure you have something to apply heat to them handy. Windy wrench alone might end up applying too much torque and snapping them like mine did. The heads on mine had basically become one with the hub carrier.

Afaik, the actual subframe is common, but the mounts differ from config to config, identified by colours.

I prepped, zinc182'd and finally painted my spare subframe in engine laquer. Given the proximity of the bottom end and exhaust I'd say it probably gets quite warm down there.

One day when there's nothing else keeping her off the road I may fit it.

If anyone knows how to get at the subframe bolts in situ without pulling the ABS pump off I'd love to know the secret, by the way...

 

[Caffienated]

other random thought... Doesn't 'corroded to excess' mean that if struck with reasonable force from an MOT testing hammer, it goes through?

To be fair, there's a huge margin for 'would you be happy letting your family use this?' decisions if an MOT tester is uncertain whether to pass something or not.

 

[jlovie]

'corroded to excess' would probably be a fail. Mine were "corroded but not seriously weakened" which is code for "you might have to do something next year". The rear suspension doesn't look too good either. It's now a 13 year old car, which was never garaged only washed a handful of times (I bought it new) and there's a lot of salt on the roads in winter up here.

I've got a year to keep running it and see what goes wrong before next MOT, but the problems are starting to happen all too regularly now after years of good reliabilty.

I've just noticed a clicking when I release the brakes - it's coming from the rear load balancing valve - Haynes suggest it's adjustable but doesn't seem to give measurements or settings. Doesn't seem too cause any problems, just annoying now I've noticed it.

There's getting to be a list of things that need attention:
Power steering pipes to the rack corroded was an advisory
Handbrake just scraped through again, mechanism on one caliper probably knackered, need a new caliper.
Usual rear disc corrosion (I was going to replace those before this MOT but was waiting to see if caliper passed)
Radiator bodged with sealant. hard cooling pipe around engine also bodged.
When looking at balance valve, brake pipes don't look too good around there, probably need replacing next year.

Body and floor still seems sound enough though (I found a coachbuilder who did a lead filler repair to rear arches a few years ago)

If nothing else goes wrong before next year I'd probably do the subframe, if there are a lot more problems it might be time to call it a day.
I'll probably get a pre-MOT check done a few months before it's due so I can decide.

 

[Cupra Kid]

There is a cheap and easy way around some of this. Get it waxoyled. If its thick enough the tester won't be able to see under it and it will stop it corroding further.