I wrote to SEAT about the kickdown feature in MANUAL MODE

[mardon]

Thought you may want to read what I wrote as I know its a pet hate of a few people on here:

I thought I’d write you a letter to let you know how ridiculous verging on dangerous the kick down feature in MANUAL MODE is on my new Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra 7-speed DSG gearbox.

Now I understand to a certain extent why the box would auto change up or down (as opposed to KICK down) to protect the box if the driver is incompetent etc but for the kick down button to still work in manual mode is ludicrous. If I put the car into manual mode on some nice country lanes I’ve done so because I want to drive the car and don’t want rev the guts out of the poor thing like it does in the frankly pointless “sport” mode.

Seat, or more accurately VW engineered the engine and the box so should know better than anyone the power band. What is the point in the thing reving all the way to the limiter when it’s quite clearly out of the powerband and can’t be particularly good for the engine?

Anyway the reason I was prompted to send this email was an instance last night:

I had entered a long sweeping bend had the car in manual mode and was in the perfect gear for the corner. I’d reached the apex so was now accelerating out the corner I was now around 5000rpm as the road straitened I INTENDED to go full throttle before changing UP.. Unfortunately the DSG thought better off this and kicked the box down a cog and sent the revs up to 6000/6100rpm... This had the effect of making me think the pistons were about to exit the engine via the bonnet, made me look rather silly for reving the car pointlessly at the end of another wise perfectly smooth corner and sent the car off balance as it was now out of the powerband . WHY? Why would the DSG’s ECU possibly think at kick down at this engine speed was a good idea?

I propose what I presume would be a rather simple ECU software change/edit which would eliminate this problem completely. Ether A) remove kick down from MANAUAL mode completely or look at the parameters at which the box will kick down to which gear from a given engine speed to something slightly more realistic. I gave up on sport mode due to this reason a long time ago, I don’t know why but changing up on a corner when the engine is at a safe RPM on the rev range without my permission just does not sit well with me..

Its not all doom and gloom “Drive” is fine and works great at keeping the economy up and does a pretty good job at adapting to the drivers style. When the box is doing what its told and I haven’t accidently hit the “All Hell Break Loose” kick down button the gear changes are also swift and smooth and it’s a joy to flick up and down the box with the paddles.

So Seat/VW I beg you please have a look at the software and sort out a problem that was not only picked up in most media reviews of the car but is also driving 7-speed DSG drivers up and down the country a little loopy!

As a side note I have posted this on the seatcupra.net forums so you can track the wider response to this on there if you so wish.

Regards

Mark Donkin

We'll see what comes of it.

 

[m0rk]

On the 'wet' DSG boxes the software will not allow an automatic shift while steering is applied. strange that it's changed for the dry 7 speeders (I'm assuming you have ESP)

 

[mardon]

Yes I have ESP and XDS. The steering wheel may well have been still at the moment of kick down as the corner was straightening out but I have certainly had the car kickdown in spot mode mid corner and i'm not the only person to have had this happen.

Does anyone have more relevant email addresses for seat they can PM me? I have sent it to them via the website but i'd like to send it to an actual person and apply a read receipt.

Cheers

 

[m0rk]

It'll get to the CS team, read receipts are always turned off by most people anyway

Would it have kicked down if you left it in Manual?

 

[mardon]

Thats the problem.. It was in MANUAL!

 

[mardon]

Yes but what good will they really be able to do?

 

[Daryld]

yep ive experienced this too...overtaking in manual floor it and then bang kickdown straight into 1st...jolts forward...doesnt go any where shifts up a gear then wheel spins...dangerous!!

kickdown in auto works amazingly well and have only really just discovered how good it is over the last couple of weeks!

but surly it isnt too hard when your thinking of overtaking something to select the best gear which will give you the best pull to over take...like any other manual gear box?

edit - just to note i dont overtake much i just used it as an example of a dangerous experience for me!

 

[mardon]

It really needs sorting. How difficult can it be to turn kickdown off in MANUAL mode? It always seems to change down 2 cogs like in sport mode. At least in DRIVE it does one gear unless you keep the pedal held down hard and it will go down 2.

Example you nip from the middle lane on the motorway into the outside lane, it'll change form 7th to 6th to give you a little extra poke. If you need to nip out a little faster keep the pedal down hard and it will go down to 6th then 5th and stay there and you'll get some real nice acceleration. This is spot on for me.

 

[Daryld]

another example of spot-on-ness with the kickdown.

cruising at about 70 in 7th middle lane when a lorry pulls into your lane and a car is coming quick up the fastlane...

put ya footright down and it kicks into 4th and just flies off then a quick change up to 5th and your gone!

 

[mardon]

Wow dont think mine has ever gone all the way to 4th on the motorway unless I was in sport mode. Usually its fith max when at 60/70mph.

 

[Daryld]

im sure it was 4th! maybe i was doing a bit less than 60..will try it on the way home tonite though to see if im getting it wildly wrong

 

[Octane2097]

am i missing somthing?
i was messing about yesterday with driving in manual mode and say i was doin about 35-40mph on a dual caridge way in 7th....
i planted my right foot to the floor (and i mean really planted it) it just stayed in 7th
i found it will shift down if it thinks you dont have enough revs to keep the current gear your in or if i dropped down to 30mph or less in 7th it would shift down to 6th or 5 or whatever,
also found it shifts up if im in manual mode and get to the redline but if there is a kickdown in manual mode i havnt been able to accsess it
only in D or S

 

[FR_POWER]

am i missing somthing?
i was messing about yesterday with driving in manual mode and say i was doin about 35-40mph on a dual caridge way in 7th....
i planted my right foot to the floor (and i mean really planted it) it just stayed in 7th
i found it will shift down if it thinks you dont have enough revs to keep the current gear your in or if i dropped down to 30mph or less in 7th it would shift down to 6th or 5 or whatever,
also found it shifts up if im in manual mode and get to the redline but if there is a kickdown in manual mode i havnt been able to accsess it
only in D or S

there is a button when you plant your foot down and it should automatically go down gears. example 7th gear, goes down to 4th or 3rd which goes up to like 6,000RPMs, which you are not in the power band....

but anyway! yeah in manual mode there is a kickdown, which is rather annoying!

 

[Octane2097]

if i put the car in D or S and put my foot down to the floor till it wont go anymore
it kicks down,
however if i put the car in MANUAL and put my foot down to the floor till it wont go anymore
it just starts accelrating no kickdown whatsoever

what i was saying is kick down works as described in D or S but i wasnt sure what mardon was on about as i cant get it to kick down in MANUAL (not that id want it to)

i tryed yesterday in various gears at various speeds the only way i could get it to change automaticly in manual mode is if the revs are too low for the road speed if im pulling up to stop at a junction or a roundabout or somthing or if i hit the redline in whatever gear im in

mine does not kick down in manual mode

 

[FR_POWER]

thats very odd! hmmm i wonder why yours dont kick down...

 

[jc_boc]

Mine doesn't kick down in manual either, I like it. I can control what happens then, apart from being able to gear down whe I want and not when the DSG "thinks" it's safe to do so.

 

[mardon]

I'll have to check this out, maybe I wasn't in manual. Pretty sure I was though..?

 

[FR_POWER]

Yes I concur! I'll check this out tonight!

 

[M3rta]

it will shift down in manual mode. i think the kickdownbutton is pretty stiff so people ain't pressing it. if you give full throttle and your in a high gear it will shift down for you.

 

[EdHorny]

it will shift down in manual mode. i think the kickdownbutton is pretty stiff so people ain't pressing it. if you give full throttle and your in a high gear it will shift down for you.

This is what I found as well, the kickdown button works no matter what mode you're in.

ED