Ibiza Mk4 FR TDI - Flashing Glow plug and more

[Bearded_Feline]

Hi all,

First of all a fair warning I'm a complete newbie to the site and an utter novice when it comes to car mechanics.

I've tried to do as much reading as possible before posting to minimise my naivety but I'm still somewhat at a loss. So I bring my baggage to the forum and hopefully I'll find some answers.

I've got a 57 plate Ibiza FR TDI. Its got around 50k on the clock now.

Summary: Initially a lumpy start followed shortly by locked power steering, flashing glow plug light and engine warning light. Read codes searched the web not much help. Last night, power loss in 6th gear on motorway. Dropped into 5th and back to 6th seemed fine.

Detail:

Problems started a while ago with my car experience a lumpy start up. Best way to explain it is seems like one cylinder is about 2 seconds delayed. Sometimes it will start outright, other times it will take a couple of attempts. This seems to be worse when the car is warm rather than cold.

I initially suspected glow plugs but had no warning lights, plus my glow plugs are about 18 months old, ive also since checked the resistance in the glow plugs which all seem fine. I gave it to a mechanic friend who had a little poke around whilst doing a service. He said the throttle body was pretty mucky so proceeded to take it apart and clean it out for me. This made little to no improvement. He recommended I take it to Seat for a proper diagnosis.

Short while late, still with a lumpy start but no warning lights, I went to start the car and a low pitched moan noise blurted out. With this the glow plug light started flashing and the engine light came on. The power steering failed with the steering light also coming on. I turned the ignition off and on again immediately and everything went back to normal save the glow plug and engine lights.

I borrowed a scanner and read the codes, rather foolishly using a friends laptop and not making a note of the codes myself. I recall the scanner saying something along the lines of "speed/timing sensor" and if i had to guess id say it was something like P0721 or similar.

After a lot of googling it seemed there are lots of theories but little in the way of resolutions even from garages. I cleared the codes.

The lights came back a few starts later along with the strange whine noise (which ive not heard since), the latest development was a loss of power on the motorway last night whilst in 6th gear. Quick drop into 5th and back to 6th seemed to resolve the problem.

So if anyone out there has the remotest clue what I could be looking at before I take it in, id be very grateful.

Dave


UPDATE 1: Engine lights no longer displayed, have changed the battery but issue persists. Car has been booked in for a full diagnostic


SOLVED: The cam and crank sensors were not syncronised, causing the injectors to fire at the wrong times. After a bit of investigation it turned out to be the wiring to one of the sensors that had become exposed and corroded causing a signal delay. The power steering and limp mode seem to be coincidental and unrelated. Neither have occurred before or since.

 

[S7UYJ]

To be fair mate it's best to get the proper codes it's throwing. It could all be connected but equally it could be coincidence.

One idea, what's the battery like? Have been people with weak batteries having the power steering fault, and could also explain the noise and glow plug light (if the batt hasn't got enough juice)

Maybe change it if it's old, then see where it goes...?

As for the power loss, could be dropping into limp mode breifly, does it do when foot to the floor?

Could be things like an overboosting, caused by sticking vanes in the turbo

 

[cheshire cat]

+1 also check the main fusebox isn't melting

 

[Bearded_Feline]

To be fair mate it's best to get the proper codes it's throwing. It could all be connected but equally it could be coincidence.

One idea, what's the battery like? Have been people with weak batteries having the power steering fault, and could also explain the noise and glow plug light (if the batt hasn't got enough juice)

Maybe change it if it's old, then see where it goes...?

As for the power loss, could be dropping into limp mode breifly, does it do when foot to the floor?

Could be things like an overboosting, caused by sticking vanes in the turbo

Thanks for the response.

Well on the last check the battery was fine. But yea it may be worth investing in a new one as its a good few years old now. Certainly would explain the power steering issue (Whine sounded like it couldnt quite power it up).

Ill give that a go.

The power loss has never happened before, infact once the car is up and running its always been completely fine. I've done a few long runs in the last couple of weeks and never had a problem. And in 7 years ive never experienced limp mode. What would i do with regards to sorting sticky turbo vanes?

It went into limp mode just the once whilst cruising in 6th at just under 3k revs.

The fuse box was fine on last inspection but admittedly that was before the flashing glow plug light.

Also forgot to mention that the flashing glow plug and engine light went off on its own for a couple of days..... if that means anything to anyone?

 

[S7UYJ]

There's some info on using mr muscle to free them up. But if it was just the once then I wouldn't worry just yet

Light may have gone out if you went on a long drive and got a bit of charge in the battery?

 

[Bearded_Feline]

There's some info on using mr muscle to free them up. But if it was just the once then I wouldn't worry just yet

Light may have gone out if you went on a long drive and got a bit of charge in the battery?

Ah ok, ill do some reading into that then.

Nope it hadn't been on any long drives, infact it was sat outside my Mrs house for the night.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

There's some info on using mr muscle to free them up. But if it was just the once then I wouldn't worry just yet

Light may have gone out if you went on a long drive and got a bit of charge in the battery?

Sorry, one other thing i noticed recently is that when its warm, upon ignition it will turn over loads of times but not start without a little push on the accelerator pedal.

 

[Badger]

Sorry, one other thing i noticed recently is that when its warm, upon ignition it will turn over loads of times but not start without a little push on the accelerator pedal.

This issue is caused by a dying battery.

It happens when the battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the engine over to the required RPM before the ECU injects fuel, hence why pressing the accelerator injects fuel and starts the engine.

I would suggest even though your battery shows over 12v when engine is off, when you turn the ignition off, it will drop quickly and cause issues in starting the car.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

This issue is caused by a dying battery.

It happens when the battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the engine over to the required RPM before the ECU injects fuel, hence why pressing the accelerator injects fuel and starts the engine.

I would suggest even though your battery shows over 12v when engine is off, when you turn the ignition off, it will drop quickly and cause issues in starting the car.

So everything looks to be pointing toward a knackered battery.

Well thats the first step then, thanks. Ill post an update soon, incase anyone has similar issues.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

This issue is caused by a dying battery.

It happens when the battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the engine over to the required RPM before the ECU injects fuel, hence why pressing the accelerator injects fuel and starts the engine.

I would suggest even though your battery shows over 12v when engine is off, when you turn the ignition off, it will drop quickly and cause issues in starting the car.

FYI after my last post yesterday i got in the car after work and the engine and Glowplug lights were both off and have stayed off since. Car still has a lumpy start.

Would it be worth jumping the car to see if it makes the start up any better before i invest in a new battery, if its looking more like an injector issue?

 

[Badger]

You could try jumping the car but the lumpy idle is different from the hot start issue.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

You could try jumping the car but the lumpy idle is different from the hot start issue.

Small update, if anyone is interested.

I took it for face value that it might be a battery issue so tried a couple of things, noticed the lumpy start is worse when i have more things sucking power.

Turned the engine over 3 times without so much as a splutter with all electronics off.

turned on lights/radio/wipers etc, spluttered into life 3 or 4 times.

Ordered a new Bosch battery 3 year guaratee off Ebay from Euro Car Parts (who oddly do 19% off if you buy through their ebay account) so will give that a go over the next few days. MOT due Thursday

 

[Badger]

Thanks for the update.

Your alternator must be working over time. Nice to know that the lumpy idle and hot start can be linked. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

Thanks for the update.

Your alternator must be working over time. Nice to know that the lumpy idle and hot start can be linked. Let us know how you get on.

Yea, luckily we are have a bit of nice weather i can afford to turn everything off for a couple of days. But im not going to count my eggs yet, history would dictate nothing is ever that straight forward for me

Anyways, I will give an update in a day or two.

All warning lights have since remained off. Noticed the oil is a bit low too so will be topping that up.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

To be fair mate it's best to get the proper codes it's throwing. It could all be connected but equally it could be coincidence.

One idea, what's the battery like? Have been people with weak batteries having the power steering fault, and could also explain the noise and glow plug light (if the batt hasn't got enough juice)

Maybe change it if it's old, then see where it goes...?

As for the power loss, could be dropping into limp mode breifly, does it do when foot to the floor?

Could be things like an overboosting, caused by sticking vanes in the turbo

+1 also check the main fusebox isn't melting

This issue is caused by a dying battery.

It happens when the battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the engine over to the required RPM before the ECU injects fuel, hence why pressing the accelerator injects fuel and starts the engine.

I would suggest even though your battery shows over 12v when engine is off, when you turn the ignition off, it will drop quickly and cause issues in starting the car.

Update:

You'll be please to know.......nothing is resolved.

I took out the old battery which was a fair bit smaller than the new one, which lead me to think perhaps it wasnt the right battery in the first place, which was encouraging. After a lot of fettling with the battery and also the air filter cover, i got the new Bosch one in.

sat in the seat, radio off, AC off, Lights off. Turned the ignition and same thing. engine starts but sounds like one cylinder is delayed/sticky/not getting enough air/fuel.

To make matters worse the Radio is displaying "1000". When i enter the manuals Radio Code and press the program button, nothing happens. it just continues to display the code i input.

Ive tried turning everything off and removing the keys, turning the radio on and trying again, still nothing.

I left the radio on last night as i read it has a 2 hour reset time between attempts, however come this morning the radio was off again and once again i could not unlock it.

So now i have a car with a lumpy start that's got no radio and is due an MOT. Anyone in the market for a Seat Ibiza FR?

 

[Badger]

Try 'SCAN' instead for the radio code.

That's not good to hear. Looks like it could be something that requires proper diagnostics.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

Try 'SCAN' instead for the radio code.

That's not good to hear. Looks like it could be something that requires proper diagnostics.

How do you mean? Type the code then press scan?

Looking through the web it seems that if the code is permanently displayed ("Safe" doesnt come up") it may need to be decoded by SEAT

Which would be typically my luck.

Yea i think im going to just have to bite the bullet and stick it in with SEAT. Ive got a mate coming over the weekend whos going to have a look at a few things such as the coil packs but im convinced its mechanical.

 

[Badger]

No, the manual was printed wrong, enter the code and press 'SCAN'

Diesels don't have coil packs as its high compression ignition. It could possibly be an inlet air leak after the MAF, stuck EGR valve or a host of other issues. A proper diagnostic scan should identify the problem.

 

[Bearded_Feline]

No, the manual was printed wrong, enter the code and press 'SCAN'

Diesels don't have coil packs as its high compression ignition. It could possibly be an inlet air leak after the MAF, stuck EGR valve or a host of other issues. A proper diagnostic scan should identify the problem.

Booked in for the full diagnopstic treatment from a garage i trust and like. Spoke to their diagnostic specialist who explained what steps theyd take. Going in tonight.

Will update.

Thanks for getting back to me, appreciate it

 

[Bearded_Feline]

No, the manual was printed wrong, enter the code and press 'SCAN'

Diesels don't have coil packs as its high compression ignition. It could possibly be an inlet air leak after the MAF, stuck EGR valve or a host of other issues. A proper diagnostic scan should identify the problem.

FYI scan thing worked a treat, thank you.