Is it worth changing from a Cupra to a Cupra R or a Focus RS

[Evsi]

Ford Escort - Most successful rally car of all time.

Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth - highly successful in European and World Touring Cars in the 80s and early 90s and winner of the 1987 World Touring Car Championship.

Audi Quattro - Needs no introduction, or Ford RS200 for that matter. Add Group B spec, and you have something that will still show most if not all hot hatches the way down the road even today.

These are just three examples, but all have successful and proven racing background and history, all have their place in history and all are now rare, sought after and will only appreciate in value. The RS4 does not fall in to any of these categories, rose tinted glasses or not. It is a heavy thirsty lumbering beast with note which in reality is slower than its claimed power figure would suggest.

For sure, if you compare new vs old, of course a 20/30 year newer car with twice the displacement, twice the number of cylinders and valves has got a good chance of being "faster". That however is not my point. My point is that the RS4 has nothing to offer to make it iconic and if you spend similar money on something which was and is still iconic today (Evo), you will get from A to B faster every time with as much space, as many toys and with a much bigger smile on your face. Or spend out on an RS6 V8, add a milltek, intake, remap etc for less money and with the extra space, toys and 100+ extra bhp, enjoy passing an RS4 getting death like it is parked.

I have no idea where you're getting your info from - they're your opinions which you are welcome to!

I think you're mistaking what's being said. Your suggestions are great for showing off on a drag strip in front of your mates, but overall (and yes my opinion), you cannot compare an Audi RS4 to an old Ford or an Evo! It's a luxury saloon which has fantastic handling/grip/acceleration all tied together in a reliable and more unique package - End of for me.

 

[sportbilly]

lets face it we all dont like the same thing, all these cars are great

One thing is - without them some of the cars we see today may not exist.

 

[Evsi]

lets face it we all dont like the same thing, all these cars are great

One thing is - without them some of the cars we see today may not exist.

Bang on the money!

 

[chris285]

There is, not sure who it is, but I remember reading about he was disappointed with the performance.

Think he said it "just felt heavy" or something along those lines.

i think he said it was quick but he felt very uninvolved in the drive, just had to point and press which was no fun and he said the cupra was much more fun to drive

i also remember someone on here with a stage 2+ cupra running about 360bhp saying that not much short of a 911 turbo was a quicker car, so standard rs will be left in a straight line but again modding it will take it past but i think to get over about 380 i'm sure i read that it gets expensive. as for the cupra internals as far as i know the engine can handle 350bhp with no problems

for me the cupra k1 is appealing as its a 12-14k car, which after a remap will beat a standard rs which costs a hell of a lot more. i can take it to 350bhp for cost putting it still well below a rs and making it very good value for money, however there are better cars out there but the cupra is very competitive and better on fuel than most competitors and the seats are better than the rs

if i had the money however i'd get a tt rs myself, 5 pot with quattro makes a very nice car

 

[Al]

I have no idea where you're getting your info from - they're your opinions which you are welcome to!

I think you're mistaking what's being said. Your suggestions are great for showing off on a drag strip in front of your mates, but overall (and yes my opinion), you cannot compare an Audi RS4 to an old Ford or an Evo! It's a luxury saloon which has fantastic handling/grip/acceleration all tied together in a reliable and more unique package - End of for me.

What are you going on about drag strips for . Iconic means that the car has achieved something. RS4 has never achieved anything other than failure to make 30mpg on a good day

Try doing a search for info on the Audi Quattro, Escort or Sierra. You will find what I have said is factual and not opinion . This is why the current Focus RS is as much of an anti-climax as perhaps the RS4 is to the Audi Quattro.

I am not mistaking what is being said. If you want to compare V8's, then compare the RS4 to a Monaro VXR8, C63AMG or an M3 V8. Both do everything the RS4 does, but are better at it. The RS4 never comes top on these comparisons.

As for the RS4 being unique, its maybe the city I live in, but there are more RS4's here than MK2 Leon Cupra's, so they are hardly unique.

 

[betty_swollox]

This is going to be a long debated thread and read all posts al your interesting guy that knows alot history on cars and facts which nice to see and read, but I think this thread is an opinion thing where there is no real answer,

Exactly what I was thinking lol. Nee one is right, it's just opinions really.

 

[betty_swollox]

What are you going on about drag strips for . Iconic means that the car has achieved something. RS4 has never achieved anything other than failure to make 30mpg on a good day

Try doing a search for info on the Audi Quattro, Escort or Sierra. You will find what I have said is factual and not opinion . This is why the current Focus RS is as much of an anti-climax as perhaps the RS4 is to the Audi Quattro.

I am not mistaking what is being said. If you want to compare V8's, then compare the RS4 to a Monaro VXR8, C63AMG or an M3 V8. Both do everything the RS4 does, but are better at it. The RS4 never comes top on these comparisons.

As for the RS4 being unique, its maybe the city I live in, but there are more RS4's here than MK2 Leon Cupra's, so they are hardly unique.

Calm down lol

 

[Evsi]

Getting a bit silly now. Why don't we compare santa's sleigh to a fly mo.....

 

[Al]

Few of them in this town too, normally with baked bean tin exhausts

 

[betty_swollox]

Few of them in this town too, normally with baked bean tin exhausts

Some crazy bloke at work has a scooby estate with the biggest, loudest, tin can exhaust I have ever heard

I thought it was going to be some scruffy chav getting out of the car....but it was an old-ish bloke in a suit with a pony tail

 

[CandyWight]

don't get me started on the Focus RS more a green 1 with black wheel's and vent's they are gorgeous

They certainly are! There is one on the Island with all the black bits on and black WRC graphics on it too - it's soooo nice! Much better than the orange one imo!

 

[hedge9001]

Lol

Some crazy bloke at work has a scooby estate with the biggest, loudest, tin can exhaust I have ever heard

I thought it was going to be some scruffy chav getting out of the car....but it was an old-ish bloke in a suit with a pony tail

A Pony tail says it all really lol! I'm guessing he says contempory darling and stuff like that lol!!

 

[S.E.C.T.]

Behind every pony-tail there is an arse hole

 

[chopper-lew]

This is why the current Focus RS is as much of an anti-climax as perhaps the RS4 is to the Audi Quattro.

Blasphemy !!!

The only reasons that it could be considered an anti-climax are that

1. its constantly being compared with its grandad, the escort cosworth.

2. its far more mass produced (14,000 cars globally) so not as exclusive.

3. and the big one..... its not 4WD. Little do most folk know that the current focus RS was produced in 4WD as a prototype. With todays modern traction control, ESP, EBD and various other electronic aids that cars of the early 90's never had, the Mk 2 RS was described as 'flat, sterile and un-involving' by the test/development drivers. The power that was produced by the engine was getting sapped by the heavy 4WD setup. A bit like modern Audi RS3/RS4/RS5 etc.

So instead of conforming to the current trend of making it 4WD, ford decided to make one of the (if not the) highest powered FWD production cars that was a hoot to drive (see thread 'modded K1 is more fun to drive than Audi RS4' as mentioned earlier!), reasonably economical to run and could handle considerable tuning.

OK, so when the tarmac is soaking wet, or covered in a couple of inches of snow, its not gonna be as useable as a 4WD setup. However for the other 46 weeks of the year its damn good and can embarrass some seriously overrated cars.

 

[Ryan20]

Blasphemy !!!

The only reasons that it could be considered an anti-climax are that

1. its constantly being compared with its grandad, the escort cosworth.

2. its far more mass produced (14,000 cars globally) so not as exclusive.

3. and the big one..... its not 4WD. Little do most folk know that the current focus RS was produced in 4WD as a prototype. With todays modern traction control, ESP, EBD and various other electronic aids that cars of the early 90's never had, the Mk 2 RS was described as 'flat, sterile and un-involving' by the test/development drivers. The power that was produced by the engine was getting sapped by the heavy 4WD setup. A bit like modern Audi RS3/RS4/RS5 etc.

So instead of conforming to the current trend of making it 4WD, ford decided to make one of the (if not the) highest powered FWD production cars that was a hoot to drive (see thread 'modded K1 is more fun to drive than Audi RS4' as mentioned earlier!), reasonably economical to run and could handle considerable tuning.

OK, so when the tarmac is soaking wet, or covered in a couple of inches of snow, its not gonna be as useable as a 4WD setup. However for the other 46 weeks of the year its damn good and can embarrass some seriously overrated cars.

true and i saw in Auto Express that the next Focus RS will have 380bhp but will stay fwd

 

[Al]

Blasphemy !!!

The only reasons that it could be considered an anti-climax are that

1. its constantly being compared with its grandad, the escort cosworth.

2. its far more mass produced (14,000 cars globally) so not as exclusive.

3. and the big one..... its not 4WD. Little do most folk know that the current focus RS was produced in 4WD as a prototype.

Not the only three reasons, but three reasons enough.

The reason its compared to the Escorth RS Coworth is because of obvious size and badge comparisons and, as you say, its the Focus's Grandad which was better than the Focus's dad.

Sure the MK2 Focus RS drives better and is faster than the Escos standard vs standard, but then it is almost 20 years newer in design has 500cc more and an extra cylinder as well as 80bhp more. Mass production of the Focus will ensure it is never recognised in the same light as the Esocrt in 20 years and the lack of 4 wheel drive will ensure it will never ever compete with the cars it really needs to compete with - the Impreza and Evo. Spend a bit of cash on the Escort, and a Focus would struggle even with the same money spent on it.

With todays modern traction control, ESP, EBD and various other electronic aids that cars of the early 90's never had, the Mk 2 RS was described as 'flat, sterile and un-involving' by the test/development drivers. The power that was produced by the engine was getting sapped by the heavy 4WD setup. A bit like modern Audi RS3/RS4/RS5 etc.

So instead of conforming to the current trend of making it 4WD, ford decided to make one of the (if not the) highest powered FWD production cars that was a hoot to drive (see thread 'modded K1 is more fun to drive than Audi RS4' as mentioned earlier!), reasonably economical to run and could handle considerable tuning.

OK, so when the tarmac is soaking wet, or covered in a couple of inches of snow, its not gonna be as useable as a 4WD setup. However for the other 46 weeks of the year its damn good and can embarrass some seriously overrated cars.

In light of this, why is it no test ever places the Focus above an Evo? In addition, all this power and excellence, it is still behind the Megane where it counts - new style and old style .

 

[chopper-lew]

In light of this, why is it no test ever places the Focus above an Evo? In addition, all this power and excellence, it is still behind the Megane where it counts - new style and old style .

The Megane is an excellent car.

Good to see that they are following Fords lead of staying front wheel drive with big power. Ive never driven one, but apparently thay are nice, if maybe not quite as exciting as an RS.

I have however driven a EVO 9 FQ360 and it was awsomely fast and grippy. However, although it provided an intense driving experience, it didnt really feel any faster than my RS (which was tuned to similar power at the time) once it was past about 40 mph.

However, the interior looked like it was from a early 90's honda prelude, the ride quality was painfull, and the fuel economy was barely in the double figures. Not a problem of course if your a magazine tester, but if you wanna use it as a daily driver over the course of several years, it's gonna start to get tiresome! (All in my unbiased opinion of course LOL)

 

[Al]

Ha ha. I have to admit to being a Ford man, but I just can't get myself to love the Focus RS MK1 or MK2.

Only recently there were three cars at Alford on the same day - a sub 200bhp MK2 Escort track car, a 300bhp Escort RS Cosworth Rally Car set up for the forrest with mud tyres and jacked up suspension and the special edition MK2 Focus RS500 with 350bhp in matt black.

See which one you think is fastest - give you a clue - its the oldest one and the newest one is the slowest!

Same track, same day.

MK2 Escort vs Evo 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l1730ty5NQ

Escort RS Cosworth vs Evo 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f67ArlvCDek

Focus RS 500 vs old Jag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6O-MDvWXFc

PS - the Focus was the only one of the three to get beat - by an archaic old Jag


Same day again - a Tesla giving a Ferrari 430 a good chase and forcing its driver in to crashing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slg92penTYw&feature=related

 

[chopper-lew]

Al, I only had the pleasure of meeting you briefly at Crail, but next time, lets make sure its in a pub over a few pints as you seem like the type of bloke I could argue the merits of various cars over untill the cows come home !

 

[Al]

Nae worries - will maybe make it to Crail for the fast ford day coming up if you are going.