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LCR .. twin fans
- Thread starter supercuprar
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UncleFester wrote
As said above, i don't see the occasional error code as a huge problem - maybe there should be diodes installed in the nime box wiring and also in the fan wiring to prevent signals from going where they shouldn't however, an occasional error code appearing on the ECU for glowplugs is not something i'm going to worry about.
It's a classic systems integration problem - systems work in isolation, then when they're all put together they find new and interesting ways of interfering with one another. A bit like people in an office . . .
The Nime box applies active control to fix a broken passively managed system. It has to use the existing wiring which wasn't designed with this kind of use in mind. The results will be unpredictable: you have a spurious fuel system warning (glowplug light on after starting). Skahigh had ABS failure - a much more critical issue.
I admire what the Nime guy has done, it really is an excellent answer to the motor control problem. He's not trying to make a fast buck, just responding to people's desire to share his solution to the fan problem. But because it has to be retrofitted to a wiring harness not designed for it, there is always a risk of unforseen side-issues. He can only test it on cars he's got access to, and none of them was a Leon as far as I know.
I don't think diodes are going to help, I think the problem is radiated EMI, which typically does not admit of simple solutions.
As said above, i don't see the occasional error code as a huge problem - maybe there should be diodes installed in the nime box wiring and also in the fan wiring to prevent signals from going where they shouldn't however, an occasional error code appearing on the ECU for glowplugs is not something i'm going to worry about.
It's a classic systems integration problem - systems work in isolation, then when they're all put together they find new and interesting ways of interfering with one another. A bit like people in an office . . .
The Nime box applies active control to fix a broken passively managed system. It has to use the existing wiring which wasn't designed with this kind of use in mind. The results will be unpredictable: you have a spurious fuel system warning (glowplug light on after starting). Skahigh had ABS failure - a much more critical issue.
I admire what the Nime guy has done, it really is an excellent answer to the motor control problem. He's not trying to make a fast buck, just responding to people's desire to share his solution to the fan problem. But because it has to be retrofitted to a wiring harness not designed for it, there is always a risk of unforseen side-issues. He can only test it on cars he's got access to, and none of them was a Leon as far as I know.
I don't think diodes are going to help, I think the problem is radiated EMI, which typically does not admit of simple solutions.
EMI is the devils work - the only possible cure would be shielded wiring on ALL the affected wires and that's not feasible to fix. I'm going to monitor it but for now it's staying where it is. I still wonder if the slow speed wire should be permanently disconnected from the original fan controller though.
UncleFester wrote
I still wonder if the slow speed wire should be permanently disconnected from the original fan controller though.
If I understand his wiring diagram correctly, the slow speed wire from the VAG fan controller is used to switch the Nime box on. I'd expect his instructions say to cut that wire, connect the controller end to the Nime box "on" input and clip the other end out of the way, wrapping the end up to insulate it. (It leads to the failed resistor, but there's always the possiblity that the failure has only gone high-resistance rather than open-circuit.)
So you can't disconnect the slow-speed wire, it's telling your Nime box when to start working (in slow-speed mode).
I can see a couple of changes that might help.
One is to turn the power supply wiring to the fans into twisted-pair, by getting some wire of a similar diameter and twisting it together with the power wire, all the way up to the VAG fan controller, and doing the same down to the output wire from the Nime box. Twisted-pair wiring drastically reduces radiated noise. You'd have to earth one end, but ONLY one end - probably easiest to do at the Nime box, making sure the thicker wire paired with the power wire is connected too. It's no good wrapping the earth wire round the power wire though - they have to be twisted together, like a rope: the geometry matters.
Another is to switch the Nime box by XOR-ing the low and high speed fan signals, so that the Nime box would switch off once the high speed relay in the VAG fan controller closes. I may be worrying too much, after all the FET in his box will have 12V on either side of it once the high-speed relay closes, but the 555 timer circuit will still be running and there may be just enough leakage to upset something.
I still wonder if the slow speed wire should be permanently disconnected from the original fan controller though.
If I understand his wiring diagram correctly, the slow speed wire from the VAG fan controller is used to switch the Nime box on. I'd expect his instructions say to cut that wire, connect the controller end to the Nime box "on" input and clip the other end out of the way, wrapping the end up to insulate it. (It leads to the failed resistor, but there's always the possiblity that the failure has only gone high-resistance rather than open-circuit.)
So you can't disconnect the slow-speed wire, it's telling your Nime box when to start working (in slow-speed mode).
I can see a couple of changes that might help.
One is to turn the power supply wiring to the fans into twisted-pair, by getting some wire of a similar diameter and twisting it together with the power wire, all the way up to the VAG fan controller, and doing the same down to the output wire from the Nime box. Twisted-pair wiring drastically reduces radiated noise. You'd have to earth one end, but ONLY one end - probably easiest to do at the Nime box, making sure the thicker wire paired with the power wire is connected too. It's no good wrapping the earth wire round the power wire though - they have to be twisted together, like a rope: the geometry matters.
Another is to switch the Nime box by XOR-ing the low and high speed fan signals, so that the Nime box would switch off once the high speed relay in the VAG fan controller closes. I may be worrying too much, after all the FET in his box will have 12V on either side of it once the high-speed relay closes, but the 555 timer circuit will still be running and there may be just enough leakage to upset something.
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tamemin
Guest
Hi,
I am Tamer Emin of Nime Consulting Limited.
If anyone who has fitted one of our speed controllers, and is experiencing intermittent problems with ABS/TCS due to it's use, please feel free to return to unit to us for a full re-refund.
It appears that the electronics in some Seats Cupra's a bit more sensitive to the PCM operation of the Nime speed controller than that of the car is was developed (Golf). It's not clear from the forum which models are ok and which ones are affected. We would most appreciate it if you could drop us a line if you are a user, telling us how it has been performing.
There is a possibility that I could do some further development work on the unit, to solve the interference problems on the Cupra, but I would need access to one of the problem cars to to achieve it. If anyone is has a candidate car, and is interested, please drop me a line and we'll see what we can arrange.
Apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Regards
Tamer
I am Tamer Emin of Nime Consulting Limited.
If anyone who has fitted one of our speed controllers, and is experiencing intermittent problems with ABS/TCS due to it's use, please feel free to return to unit to us for a full re-refund.
It appears that the electronics in some Seats Cupra's a bit more sensitive to the PCM operation of the Nime speed controller than that of the car is was developed (Golf). It's not clear from the forum which models are ok and which ones are affected. We would most appreciate it if you could drop us a line if you are a user, telling us how it has been performing.
There is a possibility that I could do some further development work on the unit, to solve the interference problems on the Cupra, but I would need access to one of the problem cars to to achieve it. If anyone is has a candidate car, and is interested, please drop me a line and we'll see what we can arrange.
Apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Regards
Tamer
Tamer, thanks very much for that offer, thats very much appreciated.
I have had problems with my TCS which as I have said, have seemingly been cured by removing your fan control fix.
I actually cut one of the wires in order to remove the box in such a way that I could refit it if turned out to be not at fault, is this a problem with regards to returning the box?
Many thanks,
Jon
I have had problems with my TCS which as I have said, have seemingly been cured by removing your fan control fix.
I actually cut one of the wires in order to remove the box in such a way that I could refit it if turned out to be not at fault, is this a problem with regards to returning the box?
Many thanks,
Jon
tamemin
Guest
I was just about to post that I'd heard from Tamer Emin following an email I sent yesterday (with a thread link) asking for some advice on this... and find it's all here already! Totally appreciate your offer, Tamer, of a refund but also see that it'd be good to find out if there's something can be done to make this work as well for Leons as it does for Golfs.
I'd be willing to pop down to Oxfordshire and let Tamer take a look, but it occurs to me that Fester and I have the same tdi Cupras and are getting the same issue... Absolutely not wishing to volunteer you, Fester, any more than you have already, but if you'd be willing to pop to Nime for investigatory work, I'd be willing to verify the success of any tweak for Leon Cupras that may arise. I'm reluctant to ditch the box for a fan replacement at £400 odd I don't have when I know this box has fixed the problem, which you've also indicated.
hi i been reading this thread..i also have a nime box ..i did the fitting guide earlier on in this thread..
just lettting ya know ive so far not had any problems using it on my 03 LCR.. although ive not had the aircon on alot since fitting it last year it ha beebn used occasionally.....is it just people who have there aircon all the time who are having trouble?
just lettting ya know ive so far not had any problems using it on my 03 LCR.. although ive not had the aircon on alot since fitting it last year it ha beebn used occasionally.....is it just people who have there aircon all the time who are having trouble?
That seems to be what causes the issue yes, most of my trips are short ones - the only time i've seen the issue was directly after fitting it and then once again about 4 weeks later after a good run out with the aircon on.
My trips are short 'around town' trips for the most part but my aircon tends to stay on all the time. The warning light came on the day after fitting, was reset the following day then took a week to decide to come back on again. Aircon on throughout that week.
Muttly - your guide was excellent, and helped my Other Half out tremendously when he was fitting the Nime box. We used it in combination with the Nime guide, and as Leon-specific backup, for which it was great!
Muttly - your guide was excellent, and helped my Other Half out tremendously when he was fitting the Nime box. We used it in combination with the Nime guide, and as Leon-specific backup, for which it was great!
Aircon will be a factor, as the slow-speed fans are only engaged when the air-cooling system is engaged, to ensure that there is airflow over the condenser even when stationary. I, too, leave my aircon compressor on most of the time now, as it serves to dry the air and also keeps the seals in order - apparantly you're more likely to get leaks if you switch the system off for long periods as the seals dry out?
If my fans go I'll probably do the resistor mod, I have some familiarity with a soldering iron and can fettle wiring without worries. I can see why people less confident with electronics prefer a plug-and-go solution, though.
Tamer, I wish there were more people in business like you, prepared to keep the customer happy and take a short-term loss in order to improve the product.
muttly, do you take your nickname from the Hanna-Barbera character like I do? I was given it years ago for my (then) tendency to be less than clear when speaking in meetings or presentations - a confidence thing. I've improved since then, but like the handle and have used it in many online forums.
If my fans go I'll probably do the resistor mod, I have some familiarity with a soldering iron and can fettle wiring without worries. I can see why people less confident with electronics prefer a plug-and-go solution, though.
Tamer, I wish there were more people in business like you, prepared to keep the customer happy and take a short-term loss in order to improve the product.
muttly, do you take your nickname from the Hanna-Barbera character like I do? I was given it years ago for my (then) tendency to be less than clear when speaking in meetings or presentations - a confidence thing. I've improved since then, but like the handle and have used it in many online forums.
well i think i may leave my aircon permantly for abit see if anything crops up also...i guess ill need some warmer weather for it to kick in though or im goona have to set the temperature down abit ..lol
thanks cuprakitty glad it was some help.. its shame these problems have come about now. im sure there will be solution though...as muttley sed its a there aint more people like tamer about..
haha no muttley i didnt lol.. my names matt ..so get called mattly.. which has kinder got changed into muttly!..lol.. nice to see another muttley on the forum though..hahha
thanks cuprakitty glad it was some help.. its shame these problems have come about now. im sure there will be solution though...as muttley sed its a there aint more people like tamer about..
haha no muttley i didnt lol.. my names matt ..so get called mattly.. which has kinder got changed into muttly!..lol.. nice to see another muttley on the forum though..hahha
OK, so having removed the Nime box I'm now considering going with the external resistor mod but I'm not too sure about mounting positions. The original MK IV thread shows it fitted under the headlight which is not an option on the LCR due to pipework and intercooler etc.
So....
Who has carried out this mod on an LCR and where did you mount the resistors (photos would be great).
So....
Who has carried out this mod on an LCR and where did you mount the resistors (photos would be great).
I have the Nime box fitted and my TCS light comes an after running the aircon for about half an hour.
I'm not far from Oxfordshire so I can offer an LCR for investigative work. I would rather have an improved Nime box than pay £400 for a new fan assembly!!!
I'm not far from Oxfordshire so I can offer an LCR for investigative work. I would rather have an improved Nime box than pay £400 for a new fan assembly!!!
i just had to bite the bullet, I paid 238 including vat for both new fans, I will fit them myself, not a good start to leon ownership!
I only bought my 53 reg leon cupra Tdi last week too!
I only bought my 53 reg leon cupra Tdi last week too!
i just had to bite the bullet, I paid 238 including vat for both new fans, I will fit them myself, not a good start to leon ownership!
I only bought my 53 reg leon cupra Tdi last week too!
Do they come with a long guarantee? From what I understand they WILL fail again, most likely just outside the warranty
£238 isn't so bad I suppose if you can fit it yourself
Has anyone thought to fit aftermarket fans which aren't so rubbish?I'm in the process of getting my Nime box in. Started building up the kit this morning, it's not the easiest thing to make as the PCB is quite cramped especially when trying to surface mount standard components. Anyway got it all together need to test it in a minute
Waiting for my order to arrive with the box to put it in
They come with a 24 month unlimited mileage warranty, so I will be keeping the bill somewhere safe!
I hope these ones will be better than the original ones, I am trying to think of ways to prolong their lifespan!
The only good thing to come from this is the fact I have a spare electronic fan for keeping my classic mini cool now!
I hope these ones will be better than the original ones, I am trying to think of ways to prolong their lifespan!
The only good thing to come from this is the fact I have a spare electronic fan for keeping my classic mini cool now!
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