Mk4 2020 Leon is a downgrade

gaffer1986

Active Member
I'm still enjoying my 2014 Leon despite having it since new and putting 166,000 miles on it (mostly learner driver mileage). I think it's a great car. So I was excited to see the new Leon.

Please don't be offended as I know people can be defensive about their cars as if it was a personal insult not an opinion about a machine they will one day sell or scrap.

The Mk4 Leon felt like a downgrade, firstly no SEAT sound which is a real highlight in my car, to my surprise I have found it better than the 2004 350z Bose, 2008 A5 Bang and Olufsen, 2009 A3 Bose and 2014 Mazda 3 Bose. The A3 being the lowest quality as far as my ears could tell.

There are no HVAC knobs and all the buttons are no longer buttons which I find far more challenging and frustrating to use.

The rest of it doesn't feel like a downgrade but it doesn't feel like an upgrade either.

You get less for your money too, my car was £20,000 for 1.4 140ps FR model with a couple of options, now a similar powered and spec'd car is £26,300 - that's not just SEAT but it seems cars have suddenly got a whole lot more expensive, far exceeding inflation. If I assume 2.5% inflation compounded over 6 years it should be around £23,000. That's being generous as inflation was actually lower over that period.

Also the dealer said you can't add options, which is good in some ways but not in others.

To me it feels more or less like the same car with different interior and exterior styling. The interior quality is still the same with the same plastics high and low. They have just changed the look and made it harder to live with by putting too much reliance on a touch screen which for me is distracting and doesn't work in the winter. The Mazda 3 knob I currently have is a lot easier.

Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something? Why should I "upgrade" to the latest model?

Oh and what's with the silly Leon font on the boot, looks very out of place, maybe I would get used to it.
 
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Tell

Full Member
Staff member
Moderator
I'm still enjoying my 2014 Leon despite having it since new and putting 166,000 miles on it (mostly learner driver mileage). I think it's a great car. So I was excited to see the new Leon.

Please don't be offended as I know people can be defensive about their cars as if it was a personal insult not an opinion about a machine they will one day sell or scrap.

The Mk4 Leon felt like a downgrade, firstly no SEAT sound which is a real highlight in my car, to my surprise I have found it better than the 2004 350z Bose, 2008 A5 Bang and Olufsen, 2009 A3 Bose and 2014 Mazda 3 Bose. The A3 being the lowest quality as far as my ears could tell.

There are no HVAC knobs and all the buttons are no longer buttons which I find far more challenging and frustrating to use.

The rest of it doesn't feel like a downgrade but it doesn't feel like an upgrade either.

You get less for your money too, my car was £20,000 for 1.4 140ps FR model with a couple of options, now a similar powered and spec'd car is £26,300 - that's not just SEAT but it seems cars have suddenly got a whole lot more expensive, far exceeding inflation. If I assume 2.5% inflation compounded over 6 years it should be around £23,000. That's being generous as inflation was actually lower over that period.

Also the dealer said you can't add options, which is good in some ways but not in others.

To me it feels more or less like the same car with different interior and exterior styling. The interior quality is still the same with the same plastics high and low. They have just changed the look and made it harder to live with by putting too much reliance on a touch screen which for me is distracting and doesn't work in the winter. The Mazda 3 knob I currently have is a lot easier.

Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something? Why should I "upgrade" to the latest model?

Oh and what's with the silly Leon font on the boot, looks very out of place, maybe I would get used to it.
Inflation you have to consider the exchange rate as well. Brexit destroyed the exchange rate as our futures were downgraded on financial markets. Car manufacturers can absorb some costs in the short term but not long term. On option restrictions, I believe is due to streamlining the product range to reduce costs. You have to look at the German Seat or Ireland site and compare with the UK offer. It appears to me that if you want all the extras as were available before, least on the Ateca, you have to look at the Cupra and have the bling as well. :unsure: The range thing people claim due to the mile testing thing, that's a red herring if other countries can do it but we can't. You have to thank the 51% for that 🤣. If they are right obviously the exchange rate will return and you will get more car again. 😄
 

CupraGeezer

Active Member
May 11, 2018
317
131
Wait until the tarrifs kick in.....

One also needs to bear in mind that governments are driving up the costs of cars by mandating the fitment of devices that we don't necessarily want (GPFs etc). Those costs will be passed onto consumers.
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
1,125
485
Emissions are also likely to be a factor in higher new car prices.

The EU 2021 CO2 emissions target for each car manufacturers overall fleet of new vehicles sold is 95g per km. 2020 is a transition period where the 95g target applies to the 95% least polluting vehicles in a manufacturer‘s fleet. No doubt the UK will have similar targets post-Brexit.

For every g of CO2 that a car manufacturer‘s fleet is over the target, they are fined €95, multiplied by the number of vehicles sold. So for a manufacturer with a fleet CO2 of 110g/km selling 500,000 new cars, that’s a fine of €712.5m. It’s highly unlikely that manufacturers will be absorbing this cost - they’ll be passing it onto the customer - in whole or in part - through increased vehicle prices.

I‘m assuming that the current fleet of vehicles produced by Seat have similar emissions levels to VW, and the majority of VW models currently have emissions well in excess of the 95g target, so they’re facing some sizeable fines. They can influence their fleet CO2 emissions by changing the mix of vehicles they sell by temporarily suspending production of the most highly polluting vehicles and focusing production on electric and hybrid cars. However, they‘re still in line for some significant fines and Seat may well be in a similar position.
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
1,125
485
I guess that's one way electric cars will become cheaper then ICE cars. Make ICE really expensive as apposed to making battery cars cheaper.
Possibly, yes. But as the volume of electric vehicle sales increases, there’ll no doubt be a fuel levy imposed on the electricity specifically used to recharge vehicle batteries to help make up for the reduction in revenue currently raised through fuel duty and VED.

So if electric cars become cheaper than ICE cars to buy and lease, the cost of running them is likely to increase. And if there’s a shortfall in overall revenue to the treasury generated from motorists, we’ll probably see additional increases on fuel duty and VED for fossil fuelled vehicles, and maybe a new revenue stream.............the introduction of road charging for all vehicles.
 

Tell

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Staff member
Moderator
Labour burnt their fingers on road charging. Toll roads running along side won't happen due to green issues. All quite on self drive cars. Johnson is looking at 2030 now to ban the sale of petrol / diesel cars.

My next one will be electric for sure on my change rate... still Cupra will be the first electric car for Seat. See I'll end up with a Cupra electric SUV at this rate to get all the gadgets I like plus high seating 🙄. Will cost a fortune for sure.
 

vc-10

Active Member
Mar 29, 2016
293
104
I think regarding the whole emissions things, we're going to see some decent incentives on PHEVs and pure EVs.
 
Oct 9, 2020
3
0
The Mk4 Leon felt like a downgrade, firstly no SEAT sound which is a real highlight in my car, to my surprise I have found it better than the 2004 350z Bose, 2008 A5 Bang and Olufsen, 2009 A3 Bose and 2014 Mazda 3 Bose. The A3 being the lowest quality as far as my ears could tell.
Isn't Beats Audio the exact same thing? It seems like it uses the same parts just branded Beats.
 
Oct 9, 2020
3
0
The dealer said there was no sound upgrade for the new Leon.
Probably not yet, they are rolling out new price lists right about now. Beats audio is definitely an option in German and Lithuanian websites.
Oh and also you can debadge the boot for 0 Eur.
 
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Tell

Full Member
Staff member
Moderator
Isn't Beats Audio the exact same thing? It seems like it uses the same parts just branded Beats.
Think you will find it's minus a sub woofer. The Beats is the branding for the audio range now. The Seat sound system is the one that had the sub woofer but got dropped so you didn't get it. Reckon if you want the sub woofer you need to look to the Ateca Cupra in the UK. Think you might find it has an out board audio amplifier on it which powers the sub woofer. Was always an option on VWs but crossed over to Seat but held back for the Cupra's. You cant specify up.... other Seat markets you can.

(That's why I'd have to go up to a Cupra bling to get what I optioned up on my 2016 Ateca at the time :eek:)
 
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Oct 9, 2020
3
0
Think you will find it's minus a sub woofer. The Beats is the branding for the audio range now. The Seat sound system is the one that had the sub woofer but got dropped so you didn't get it. Reckon if you want the sub woofer you need to look to the Ateca Cupra in the UK. Think you might find it has an out board audio amplifier on it which powers the sub woofer. Was always an option on VWs but crossed over to Seat but held back for the Cupra's. You cant specify up.... other Seat markets you can.

(That's why I'd have to go up to a Cupra bling to get what I optioned up on my 2016 Ateca at the time :eek:)
Nope, still has it. Needs an optional spare wheel and the manual says there is a sub in the boot. It looks exactly like what Seat Sound was on the older Leon. UK must be missing options for now, they will probably release them later when their factories catch up.


Optional sound system
The infotainment system can be extended
with an optional sound system as follows:
■ 10 speakers in different locations and with
different power levels (watts).
■ External amplifier (340 W Ethernet), which
processes the audio signals sent by the
central computer.
■ Excitation of speaker channels through
class AB final stages.
■ Audio signal processing in digital internal
signal processor (DSP).
■ Independent subwoofer in the luggage
compartment.
■ Setting options:
■ User equaliser: 5 bands.
■ Equaliser settings predefined by BEATS®
(Signature, Active, Immersive and Voice).
■ Sound distribution: Balance + Fader (left /
right / front / rear).
■ Sound optimisation by zones:
■ Manual (Driver, Front and All)
■ Automatic depending on the seats occupied.
■ Subwoofer volume.
■ Surround settings.


This is from UK owner's manual.
 

Tell

Full Member
Staff member
Moderator
I'd got the Ateca spec on my mind :rolleyes:.... That's the external amplifier, uses an optical connection if it's like the mib2 but never used on Seats till now... Tarraco may have had in on mib2 on the continent. Something you saw in VW literature but Seat made do with the built in amp on the Plus to power up the subwoofer.

Saying that if it's not in the UK spec then it's trimmed out. The post Brexit model range ;) unless you buy a Cupra where you get the trimmings as well.

You will find the zn1 infotainment unit is offered in the UK which means you dont get the wireless WiFi for Android Auto / Apple Connect, 3D buildings, the SD card input. The zn2 unit is the one for that, Cupras.

The manuals are common translations and include items that may not be offered. Still looking for a decent manual on the infotainment unit rather than the pages in the UK manual. They are light on the screen menus.

Had another play with the mib3 yesterday. Got the FeCs up and did a bit of teaching to the salesman ;). They appear to be different to the mib2 - navigation FEC wasn"t in the standard form. Could not find the cog for map updates offline as per the manual. Software update item was on the screen, may be equivalent ?. Didn't find Poi import / deletion might have missed it, perhaps software update doubles up ?. Yeah Here Maps as I've said. Some of my best artwork visible.
 
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G.P

Active Member
Sep 3, 2011
1,156
11
Worcestershire
There are no HVAC knobs and all the buttons are no longer buttons which I find far more challenging and frustrating to use
This one feature may just stop me buying one, I've lost count of the number of times my radio is stuck on one channel and I'm unable to do anything with the infortainment screen as it frozen, not to menction using whilst driving is far from easy due to bumps/pot holes within our roads, BMW & Mazda have this sorted..

OK, I've just remembered something, the digital cockpit was cool.
I decided on an FR with convenctional dials over a FR Sport because of the digital cockpit of which on the Mk.3 was far from clear when compared to BMW's. I think I just like old fashioned clear dials..
 
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