New 1.4 TSi engine varations differences

[DiMenToR]

Hey guys! I'm an old SEAT owner owned an 05 Ibiza 1.4. 10 Leon 1.8 TSi and recently I just bought 14 Leon 1.4 TSi engine code: CMBA with 122HP / 90Kw. this is the only version of the 1.4 TSi that SEAT sells in my country. I know that in Europe there is a CHPA(engine code) 140HP / 103Kw version of this exact same engine(Leon MK3, MQB Platform, single Turbo, 1.4 TSi, same as the golf's 1.4 tsi).

I am really interesting in upgrading and mapping my Leon but tune boxing/mapping only takes my engine to 156-ish HP and 250Nm Torque. As in the 1.4 140HP it takes it up to 177HP and 320Nm torque!! that is power that really sound reasonable to me.

After searching all over the web, even calling the dealership, I cannot find what are the differences between these two engines that makes the 140 version has it gains.
I really want to try and upgrade my engine parts to the 140 version and start mapping from there.
please, if you know, give me more info on these engines!

 

[szczeslaw]

There are some differences in the engine. It's not only software.
Differences:
CXSA (and CMBA): variable valves timing only on intake side, smaller turbo
CHPA: VVT on both intake and exhaust sides and bigger turbo
If i remember correctly those are only difference between those ENGINES.
Of course also gearbox is different - 122 and 125 bph versions come with MQ-200, and 140 bhp comes with MQ-250 (the same as with 1.8 TSI 180 bhp). Since gearbox is different, also cluth is different (220 mm in less powerfull versions vs 228 in more powerfull).
I think those are only differences. Hope i helped.

 

[DiMenToR]

Hey! thank you for your post. you have been really helpful.

thankfully, the DSG gearbox doesn't concern me as I bought a manual

I thought that the power increase would probably come from a slightly bigger turbo.
Visually, my new CMBA engine looks exactly like the 140 version and not like the old gen 122/125 HP.
Theoreticaly if I would put my hands on the 140 engine bigger turbo, it would be a direct fit and I would get the extra power?

what are the VVT in charge of? and would it be necessary/wise to upgrade this as well? and if so, would it be simple?

and one last thing, if somehow you would know of the exact turbo name/model that are found in those engines that would be awesome.

anyway thank you, it helped a lot mate

 

[szczeslaw]

Turbo model for CHPA is 04E145704P/04E145713A according to ETKA.
Look very close for differences on the piston head.
VVT is basically a mechanism that is moving camshaft, to change valve timings.
Most probably tehcnically it would be possible to do such upgrade, but at the same time it wouldn't make any sense, considering costs.
MQ200 and MQ250 are manual gearboxes and, like said, are different for 122 and 140 bhp engines.

 

[DiMenToR]

Turbo model for CHPA is 04E145704P/04E145713A according to ETKA.
Look very close for differences on the piston head.
VVT is basically a mechanism that is moving camshaft, to change valve timings.
Most probably tehcnically it would be possible to do such upgrade, but at the same time it wouldn't make any sense, considering costs.
MQ200 and MQ250 are manual gearboxes and, like said, are different for 122 and 140 bhp engines.

Hey again szczeslaw,

yes I misunderstood about the gear boxes. I stand corrected.

can you please state the 122 hp / 90Kw Turbocharger model? just so I know that in fact they are different.

well, my dad's 1.8 tsi leon is around 205 hp and 320NM torque and the car runs really strong and fast enough for city roads in my standards. problem is, very thirsty and automatic gear box.

after remap with let's say an air intake kit and and turbo-back exhaust my 1.4 tsi would make maybe 175 bhp and 300Nm torque and that's being very very optimistic.

as I said before starting with 1.4 140 gives me a bit stronger start.
after only remap with stock filter and exhaust the car makes around 178 BHP and 320Nm torque.
air intake, exhaust and mapping those should give me enough torque and close to 200 BHP.
on the lighter body that the Leon III has over the previous gen and the manual gear box, that should be really quick and fun car.

getting a second hand 140 turbo doesn't got to be too costly though, right?
getting one from a totaled car or something and make a direct replace(of course in the shop, with people who knows what they're doing a bit better than me).
if the slightly bigger turbo would get me those 20 horses and more importantly the torque, it might just be worth it

Again, thank you for your help mate!

 

[szczeslaw]

CMBA turbo model is 04E145704F/04E145704R.
To be honest i haven't seen many reports about EA211 TSIs upgrades. Most probably people just don't want to void the warranty. Hopefully we should see more of those in the near future, as more and more A3s and Golfs are getting >2 years old
So for now it's hard to say what can be done with those engines and how will it affect it's life time.
Too bad you went for 1.4. Should've got 1.8 instead. New generation is much more efficient than the old one, and fuel consumption is not that bad at all, comparing to 1.4.

 

[DiMenToR]

There are some tuning for the EA211 engines.. few brands of tuning boxes takes the 122 version to 152-156 hp and 250-260Nm torque. TM-Motorsport, RaceChip and SpeedBuster. SpeedBuster even claims 160hp. a Shop from Holland called JDEnginereeing did a custom remap for the Audi A3/Golf 7/Leon 5F and got as much as 160hp and 280Nm Torque. asked a local dealer here and he claimed he can match those numbers.

As far for the 140 version, it's pretty much the same with the brands, and the figures change up to 173-180hp and 300-320Nm Torque.

As for the engine, it was a hard decision. I planned for the 2012 Leon FR 2.0T with the same engine as the Golf GTI 6. It was around the same budget as the new 1.4 "FR". The car was gonna be in my possession for a while as I soon start my degree at the University and it's gonna be for those years. planned for a car that's gonna be "relevant"(?) for a while meaning new, low fuel costs, low insurance etc.. the new 1.8 in my country only comes with DSG gear box no manual which sucks.. but it was very tempting but more expensive and pretty much more everything.

200 hp and a hell of a lot more torque than the stock 1.8 tsi should be plenty enough. I drove a stock one and it's pretty darn quick. even quicker than a Golf 6 GTI. The GTI got a remap and the Leon came not so far behind.

already found the CHPA allegedly bigger turbo on eBay and it's not that pricey at all.
gonna ask around a few guys at some shops and then maybe make a purchase.
Thank you very much for your help mate, much appreciated