Oil Consumption Excessive

[Khaosie]

Hi

I own and drive a 2003 Seat Ibiza 1.4 SE, engine is BBY. Having trouble with heavy oil use.

Car is basically stock besides a K&N filter.

I'm a pizza delivery driver, so a lot of short trips, maybe 50 miles a night, engine on and off. But I regularly do long trips, 50 miles in one go, maybe three/four times a week.

I take care of the car myself, serviced it about two months ago, did everything. Coolant, brakes, plugs, oil, etc. I check my car over at least once a week, tyre pressures every other day, but I've noticed the car is using a lot of oil. Filled it up to Max three weeks ago and its just above Min today. Used Halfords 5w30 Fully, would've gone to EuroParts and got something better but had a gift card to use.

Now, I've heard of something called an oil separator getting clogged and causing heavy oil consumption. But, I can't find any information of how to change it, or where I can get one from.

Any help would he appreciated.

 

[RUM4MO]

Well I am one that pointed the finger that the air/oil separator - replaced it (costs a lot) and oil consumption is now very low - same engine but in a Polo.

Without being patronising, do you know how to check the oil level - ie it is a very difficult job to get a true level with that engine and some others. I do this, after stopping car that has been on a maybe 10 mile run - on level ground, wait 10>15 minutes, remove clean and replace dip stick, wait 10 minutes, remove dip stick and read off level.

To replace this separator, remove air cleaner assembly, lean over engine and you should see a black plastic cylinder with an electrical connector on it. It is mounted on the side of the engine, a big hole/tube high up and a small hole/tube low down, I forgotten how many small screws keep it on. Now get something that fits these screws and using memory/feel, remove all the fixings, remove the connector and ease the assembly out away from the engine. The new assembly should come complete with O-rings. So far I have not opened up this assembly as it will be trashed when I do that, wife's new Polo should arrive in a week or so, after that I can open up and dump unused/failed parts!

K&N filter, how did you take care of the breather pipe that used to connect to the stock air cleaner, as this might be part of your problem?

 

[Khaosie]

I've found the oil separator, part 036103464AH, for £300.00 and about £45.00 both on eBay. Products LOOK identical, but is there actually a difference?

I check the oil as I would any other car, level surface, cold or warm, never hot. Take out dipstick, clean, replace, remove again and identify the amount. Sometimes I repeat, just to make sure.

I've located it between making the thread and replying. It's three bolts, pretty sure they're 6mm Allen heads. Is it easier from above or below the engine?

Should've been more specific, it's the K&N panel filter, goes where the OEM one goes. However, with the induction kit the breather actually connects to the filter itself, there's a hole in the bottom for it.

 

[RUM4MO]

I've just checked the box for the new one I fitted and it is P/N 036 103 464 AH, the original one was 036 103 464 AD - both were manufactured by Hengst - if that makes buying elsewhere any easier/cheaper. The three bushed holes for the retaining screws are just over 7mm so I'd guess that the fixings are M6 which should mean 5mm Allen key - if they are Allen key heads. Your quote of £300 is frightening, I think that I paid just under/over £100 from VW maybe under two years ago (date code on box).

Removing from top or underneath - top is do-able if you can lie/lean on the top of the engine and work from memory and feel, if approaching this from underneath, I'd guess a lot easier - but only if the car was raised on a ramp and you were standing up - worked on your back and reaching up could be very challenging!!

My advise would be to phone your nearest VAG dealer's parts department for a price - they will need to order it in - so that you have a hard price to work from.

Edit:- I'm sure that you will notice this, but I've noticed that there is an extra small air hose near the top of this assembly!

Edit again:- have you ever noticed that the car pinks, this was thought to be down to the oil effectively lowering the RON of the fuel being burnt, I use Shell V-Power+ or whatever it is now called, makes that engine a lot more drivable!

Edit yet again:- £300, cheeky (ebay) Spanish person, "Hunt4VWParts" quotes £88 which sounds right!

 

[Khaosie]

Is there a difference between the AH and AD?

Nearest VAG dealer is 20 miles away, doesn't make it easy, but it's where I bought my replacement brake booster vacuum hose from.

I've noticed it's placed more towards the top, think that's the easier route.

Do you mean the tube that connects to the inlet manifold or is there another one?

Only purchased my car in February from a family member. Always told me it ran badly, didn't believe them until I drove it. Changed to V-power and that did make a noticeable difference, also noticed it in an old 125 I had, V-power is some good stuff. As Shell is just round the corner from me, I never risk supermarket fuel.

However, the biggest difference in drivability I've noticed is when I added some Cataclean from Halfords. My father swears by the stuff, so I tried it and I'll happily recommend it.

 

[RUM4MO]

I can't say what changed from AD to AH, but the trouble is the AH might be an improved parts from a point of view of reliability. My VW parts place is about 17 miles away, but I still use them than risk some nasty stuff. A phone call would sort you out as far as price is concerned and a valid credit/debit card would let them order it in with out you moving from your seat. I've never used Cat cleaner stuff, but see Halfords stock it (I think) - on that note, after getting a price from VW, do you have a Halfords near you as they can order in parts again I think, check their price first though! I've forgotten where that pipe goes, you can see the stub on the Spanish guy's ebay listing, though I'd expect it to go into the inlet area as the big top hole takes in the air/oil mixture, the small lower hole I'm guessing is for the deposited oil to return to the sump, so that only leaves somewhere to route the air into the inlet.

Edit:- the reason for not having tried Cat cleaner is, I have not been there yet!

Replacing brake servo hose, I found it a bit scary cutting the clip of the original and thinking "how can I reach that to reclamp the new hose" - luckily VAG had thought of that as it was just a push on I think, did you replace that due to the one way valve meaning the brake pedal went hard about 15 minutes after stopping the engine?

 

[Khaosie]

That's what I was thinking, maybe they've solved the issue for it clogging up?

Absolutely, I'd go straight to the manufacturer if it was always affordable.

There's a Halfords very local to me, but I'll try the dealer first.

I've seen the photo, and I can only see one outlet, on the outside, for the pipe that goes to the inlet manifold. The other two holes are as you said and attach to the engine.

I believe it's best if you use it just before an MOT, my father's twenty year old Peugeot passes it's emission test wih ease when he uses the stuff. It failed a few years ago, that's why he started using it. But I used it just to improve drivability and its made the biggest difference so far.

Edit: I was just going to put a jubilee clip over it, but was happily surprised the new one came with a push-on fitting, installation took thirty seconds. Reason for replacement was the vacuum hose had split around the one way valve meaning when you shut the engine off it would hiss because it wasn't keeping vacuum. Most noticeable difference was my brake pedal went from being 3/4 of it's travel to about 1/4.

Edit; Rang my nearest VAG dealer, part is £75.43+VAT. So, £90.52.

 

[RUM4MO]

That price must be roughly the same as I paid, sometimes, if you find an "old style" dealer parts department, ie one with a counter, they can take pity on you and give you some discount if you are buying something that looks a bit pricy, unfortunately my local VW dealer moved into a bespoke car village, so I'd think that the older guys would have been put behind a wall and some smart person will now be at a desk, now that is annoying, but progress!

I just guessed that it could be a flap motor issue with these oil separators, as I washed it out with petrol but did not bother trying it back on, I think that you call these types of separators "vortex" or "venturi" style separators.

I was surprised about the price, but once I noticed that there was a flap motor, I knew it would cost a bit more than a plain separator, maybe interestingly, the latest version of that engine in the later Ibiza even has cooling water passing through that separator!

Getting back to the brake servo pipe, I think that I quickly found that the pipe stub was flush with the surrounding plastic(?) and that meant - "oh dear!" as a jubilee clip would not have been able to fit in the space limited recess.

 

[Khaosie]

Sadly I've got none of that around here. It's always "The price is the price".

Either they solved the gunking issue in the new Ibizas or it'll be a pain in the ass to change later.

Thankfully VAG knew what they were doing and changed it in to a push-fit so I didn't have to test that theory.

 

[Khaosie]

Got paid today, so ordered the new part.

I'll fit and update in a week or two.

 

[Chino_UK]

Out of interest is this the 100bhp 1.4 engine? I ask as my partner has a Lupo sport with the 100bhp block and I'd love to try and cure it's oil consumption.

 

[Khaosie]

My engine is BBY, so the 74hp version.

Someone might need to correct me, but I believe the 100hp version is the BBZ.

I believe the engines are quite similar, so the oil separator may be an issue on the BBZ too.

There's no way to test for it, the symptoms are basically excessive oil consumption and pinking. Higher octane fuel would help, but the BBZ requires it as standard.

The part is available from any VAG dealer and is pretty easy to replace.

 

[RUM4MO]

Correct as above!

To Chino_UK, I'd expect the engine code for that 1.4 in the Lupo will be A** and not B**, if it is an "A" engine I'd think, though it pains me to say this, that the oil consumption will be due to ring/bore wear as that was a known issue with these "A" engines, seems like something that was sorted out for the launch of the "B" engines - sorry!

 

[Khaosie]

Wouldn't ring/bore issues be noticeable through a compression test?

 

[Chino_UK]

I know compression is good, had it tested last month. I know it likes to blast oil up through the air filter box after servicing it last month though!

 

[Khaosie]

The tube from my oil seperator goes straight in to the inlet manifold, bypassing the filter.

I imagine the Lupo Sport engine must have a different location for the tube or it may be a different problem.

 

[Khaosie]

Quick update.
Fitted the part today, took less than twenty minutes.

Can confirm the old part was the AD part, new part AH. There was oil in the air tube leading to the intake. Confirming burning oil.
Did it from above the engine, recommend a blanket or something as lying on the engine is easier. All three bolts were 5mm.
Caught it just in time. Oil was just below MIN. Going to fill to MAX and update in a week.

Thanks for your help.

 

[RUM4MO]

Wouldn't ring/bore issues be noticeable through a compression test?

I'm not sure how far down the "oil control ring wear" route you would need to be before compression loss would be more noticeable than drinking oil. Remember these "A" series of engines, in their final versions, did, as far as I've read, get a lot of bad press over bore/ring wear. Which is not something that so far has ever been listed as a "B" series issue.

 

[RUM4MO]

Quick update.
Fitted the part today, took less than twenty minutes.

Can confirm the old part was the AD part, new part AH. There was oil in the air tube leading to the intake. Confirming burning oil.
Did it from above the engine, recommend a blanket or something as lying on the engine is easier. All three bolts were 5mm.
Caught it just in time. Oil was just below MIN. Going to fill to MAX and update in a week.

Thanks for your help.

Good, here's hoping that will sort things! I still have a new pair of O-rings to fit to daughter's late 2009 6J Ibiza as I seem to remember that it leaked oil where that assembly fits to the engine, and some of the 1.4 16V 6J Ibiza owners had reported that there was a known issue with O-rings for that age of car. Wife's 2002 old Polo with the BBY engine has been chopped in to VW dealer when she got her new 1.2TSI SEL Polo yesterday, so I can finally cut open that old oil separator and see if I can work out what goes wrong with them, though I'd suspect that it will be the flap motor - and that can not be sorted I'd reckon in a way that would make the separator trustworthy for future use.

 

[Khaosie]

Another update - All seems good. Engine is alot smoother throughout the revs now and pulls better too. Oil level has been consistent as well. Problem appears to be sorted.