Oil Pump

[Sausageinabun]

Hi All,

I have just bought a lovely, immaculate 2009 Urano Grey Exeo S with 18" dark blue alloys, and a mere 27,700 on the clock, and I am very pleased indeed with it.

However my enjoyment has been somewhat dented recently when a workmate pointed me at the Audi A4 forum, where I read the problems with the hex drive in the oil pump being too short, and stripping in the balance shaft from which it is driven, thereby starving the engine of oil.

No problem says I, mine is a CR, not the old PD. However as I read further, it was claimed that the same fault is apparent in the later CR (B8) engine, as the exact same pump is used. It is allegedly only in engines built after Sept 2009 that VAG started to fit the longer hex drive in the pump to stop this problem from happening. Mine was first registered in March 09.

Can anyone confirm, that this is indeed the case, as I can not find any reference to any Exeo experiencing this catastrophic failure of the oil pump, and I am extremely keen not to have to pay out £650 for a re-engineered balance shaft with a longer harder hex drive to be fitted as a remedial excercise. My engine code is CAGA.

The engineering firm are adamant that I do have this ticking time bomb in my sump, and that it is only a matter of time before it quite literally explodes, leaving me with a huge repair bill running into the thousands, and furthermore, that they have seen this in B8's with as little as 42k on the clock.

Of course they have a vested interest, so I am keen to get some input from Exeo owners.

 

[James_R]

The hex drive, which is effectively a long 6 sided drive shaft; on the faulty pumps is manufactured from a hollow, mild steel. the newer shafts are made from a much more robust material without the hollowing within. The shaft is not the only fault with this type of oil pump as the teeth on the drive gear have also been known to shear.

Once the issue manifests itself the oil pressure light illuminates. If the issue is caught in the early stages then the revised pump parts will suffice as a repair, a firm i know of in stockport completely rebuild the unit with their own version of revised parts. In the past i have seen it cause issues with the vac pump, turbo, top end and ultimately the bottom end if people ignore it. The oil pressure on idle is usually sufficient to keep the pressure light at bay but once revved it will appear and a pressure test would usually register no more than 0.5 - 1.0 bar of pressure.

i've replaced several of these shafts and all but one were in Audis, all vehicles built circa 2006-2008.

Myself and my peers are yet to see or hear of any issues with the 143CR oil pumps on engines fitted to the seat exeo.

To be honest you cant always take what you read on other forums as gospel. the CR engines used in seats are a later generation and whilst the exeo shares some common components to its Audi cousins there are very few issues that remain. I've found that seat generally end up with certain systems and equipment long after other marques in the brand group so common issues with one brand tend to have been stamped out by the time they arrive at the seat factory.

 

[RichL]

I believe the problem pumps were on models fitted with a balancer, which included the Audi and some of the VW range but very few of the Skoda or Seat models.

 

[James_R]

The pump has a balance shaft that caused copious amounts of complaints of engine rocking and judders. Pain in the backside.

 

[Sausageinabun]

Myself and my peers are yet to see or hear of any issues with the 143CR oil pumps on engines fitted to the seat exeo.

That gives me hope!

To be honest you cant always take what you read on other forums as gospel. the CR engines used in seats are a later generation and whilst the exeo shares some common components to its Audi cousins there are very few issues that remain.

I realise that my engine is a Common Rail, and not a Pump Duse, that Audi owners had the problems with, however as I pointed out in my original post, it is claimed that exactly the same components used in the PD oil pump units on the Audi, were used in the early CR engines that were built before Sept 09, and went into every VAG model with a balance shaft driven oil pump, which the Exeo is, until the replacement of the parts you have outlined. Although I believe that the hex shaft was also lengthened to 100mm.

I am also aware that anything written in a forum is not gospel, hence my asking the opinion of the Exeo owners in here.

I have done some investigation of my own and as I have mentioned, can find not a single instance of a Seat Exeo having suffered from this issue. This might simply be a case of none have been posted online, and given that Seat have only sold just under six thousand Exeo's in the UK, there is far less chance of that happening.

I did find kmbpartsdirect, which is a co.uk. Take a look at kit 9 (sorry I can't post a URL yet)

As you can see, my Common Rail engine code is present, (CAGA). I have spoken with them, and they are adamant that I will suffer this failure, but as I also pointed out, they have a vested interest in propogating this information, to the tune of £650 a time for the remedial work.

I'm still dazed and confused!

 

[WaxWorx]

Hi could anyone confirm if this is the case as I to have just bought a 143 with the cr engine in it and this has got me worried

 

[Sausageinabun]

I'm trying to find out myself.

What is your engine code, what is the first registration date of your car, what mileage has your car covered.

I'm also worried, hence my asking in here.

I was hoping to receive a flood of replies from 09 owners with significantly higher mileages than my paltry 29k, in order to either put my mind at rest, or confirm my worst fears.

However look at http://kmbpartsdirect.co.uk/products.html#kit9

My engine code is there, CAGA, and I have spoken with them and they claim that I do have this potential problem.

They can replace my hex drive shaft with a 100mm hardened example, and a replacement reengineered balance shaft. Cheap it isn't though, at £650 with fitting inc VAT.

Incidentally, the power output of your engine is moot, the balance shaft driven oil pumps are all identical right across the VAG range in the TDI engine.

This issue has raised it's head in Audi, Skoda, and VW.

 

[Adam4D]

Not seen 1 caga or common rail engine failure due to oil pump problems, plenty of thrown rods and cracked engine blocks from faulty injectors hydrolocking the engine at speed.

 

[Sausageinabun]

I've not heard of the 2.0Ltr TDI Common Rail having this problem.

You say plenty, how many, what experience have you personally had with this issue.

 

[Adam4D]

I mean in the last year at my work we must of replaced 10+ engines.

I work in a audi main dealer as a tech just for reference

 

[James_R]

5+ hex drive repairs, all audis bar 1 (passat) only one of them a cr and that was an MY08.

10+ years of dealer and specialist experience.

 

[Sausageinabun]

I mean in the last year at my work we must of replaced 10+ engines.

I work in a audi main dealer as a tech just for reference

I have looked at your profile.

10 + Common Rail TDI engines with hydro lock.

Over what timeframe are we talking here, months, years, weeks. Has this ever been aknowledged by VAG, has there ever been a recall.

Being on the inside I'd imagine that you would be privy to such information.

Are you saying that I, and everybody that has bought a 2.0 Ltr TDI has made a huge mistake because this engine is the largest turkey of all time and should be avoided at all cost, gven that this is an engine use in a huge number of cars across a numer of franchises.

Are you saying that everyone that has a 2.0Ltr TDI should be panicking because they have bought a complete turkey.

I am just trying to judge the scale of any potential problem.

Should I, and indeed everbody who has a TDI get rid immediately.

How much of a problem do you, in you estimation as a dealer tech, consider this to be?

 

[Adam4D]

Those 10~ are over a year. We've changed quite a few over the last few years.

Mostly the early cr's up to say 08 plates I have seen gone bang in A4's

With new engines coming with new injectors the only way I can see a engine block crack from the main crank bearing up half the cylinder on number 4 is by hydro locking, normally the failure we see are when the customer is driving along at 70mph.

You can't stop or prevent it, if it's going to happen it'll happen so no point worrying about it.

If you have full dealer service history then you will most likely get a new engine fitted under goodwill policy/customer care.

We even had one last week that was a 1.6cr which dropped compression down to 15bar and wouldn't start.

Turns out the inlet and exhaust cam metal gear had twisted on the shaft and come out of alignment this the even drop of compression across all 4 cylinders

There was no reason for this to happen all it had was a service carried out by a mobile guy and nothing else was touched we checked all the cam carrier bolts.

It's scary these days engines are going wrong in ways you wouldn't think a wide brand engine would, I mean a timing gear on a solid shaft coming out of alignment?

Pencil drive oil pumps are easy to prevent, whip the sump off and tack weld a new pencil drive into the balance shaft unit

I'm not going to be saying much more as I believe people will use it in the wrong fashion, but I can help out where dealers are fobbing people off much like the 1.2 timing chain rattles

 

[James_R]

Proof over assumption needs to be the case here though pal.

 

[Adam4D]

No assumption mate.

Engine locks for some reason bends rod, rod goes cya and comes out the side.

Same story on Nissan navaras with chocolate blocks.

Next engine we do I'll use the old injectors in the new engine and see how it runs. I bet it missfires

 

[James_R]

Sorry Adam4D I didn't mean on your part.

 

[Sausageinabun]

Sorry Adam4D I didn't mean on your part.

Sorry, did you mean me?

Pencil drive oil pumps are easy to prevent, whip the sump off and tack weld a new pencil drive into the balance shaft unit

Wow, is this an officially sanctioned repair, or just one that you have carried out at your place of work?

 

[s3pc4]

Having avoided the previous PD 2.0TDI engine - are there indications that the CR engine is an equally poor piece of VAG engineering? This injector issue sounds pretty fundamental......... is there a mod or revised injector that avoids the issue? Or is it more an issue of how the car has been driven or am I worrying over nothing....?

 

[Sausageinabun]

I'd never heard of this injector fuel locking in the 2.0Ltr TDI until Adam4D brought it up in here.

I was asking about a very specific problem that has been widely reported in the PD engines of a given age, and that 'allegedly' was carried over into the CR's built up to the end Sept of 2009, in the hopes that an owner of a vehicle with an average mileage and of the correct age would pop up.

 

[s3pc4]

Mines a 10 reg with 70K miles. Doesn't tell you anything really......!