"Performance Tuner" disagree with coilovers

[jamiebennett81]

HI All

I am an avid reader of the new tuning magazine Performance Tuner...as its a nice blend of peoples cars and tuning tips and not the usual crap of minging birds with their baps out and escorts that have crashed into the Halfrauds Ripspeed section

a proper enthusiasts mag and tastefully done cars and as such I am now a subscriber to the magazine

So in this months issue are the top tuning tips...but I was shocked to read the following:

Tip 10. "Avoid Coilovers on the Road"

"Controversial one, this, but I believe fully adjustable race or rally coilvers (no matter how flash or gizmo laden) are a waste of time on a pure road car that'll never see sight of a track day or circuit. They tend to lower the car too much and the adjustment they offer - in my experience - is pretty minimal, so why not buy a decent set of fixed rate dampers where the settings are correct from the factory in the first place?

Believe me, gurbbing around by the side of the road trying to set ride heights or bump and rebound settings isn't fun. Keep it simple - fit, forget, drive, enjoy"

with this stern statement now printed in my mind I am really in two questions to get a set.....

What are your opinions on the above statement, as I think it is a pretty strong one and I was thinking about about getting the KW Variant 2's, but now I am not sure, as my car will never see a track (to be used for shows only as currently restoring it) and I dont want the coilovers to be so hard (regardless of damping setting) and it bouncing all over the road

so now what shall I do......

 

[m0rk]

I think he's probably right given that most people buy them purely because they want to wind them as low as possible

the point of coilovers is to allow you to get the perfect ride height - by corner weighting.

Adjustable damping is nice though, but only if you can actually do it (most mk4 golf platform shocks require you to remove the shock from the car)

I guess that you state using your car for shows only - your requirements will be different to a performance related user (hence journo from performance magazine)

 

[ibizacupra]

"Controversial one, this, but I believe fully adjustable race or rally coilvers (no matter how flash or gizmo laden) are a waste of time on a pure road car that'll never see sight of a track day or circuit. They tend to lower the car too much and the adjustment they offer - in my experience - is pretty minimal, so why not buy a decent set of fixed rate dampers where the settings are correct from the factory in the first place?

Its the owners which get carried away lowering too far, ruining many geometry angles in the process. (but it looks 'kewl')
Not a fault with the coilovers themselves.. Non damping adjustables also offer a ride height adjustable setup, without having to play with damping adjustments. (eg H&R, Variant 1 KW etc)

Avoid cheapo coilies... as they dont seem to be matched set of components to me.. boing ride.. silly assistor spring rates.

I dont think the magazine is being very "contraversial" at all myself.

"Its not how low you go, but how you go low" << some slogan I remember from somewhere ot other.. (suspension manufacturer no doubt)

 

[karlosR]

i've never seen the point of bump/rebound adjustable coil overs on a road car, the more things there are to fiddle with then the more thing are to go wrong. i'd be quite happy with some lowering springs and uprated dampers.

 

[cuprablue]

I agree 100% with his statement. Even if they did give a full range of adjustments why do people assume that is a good thing?? Assuming there is one perfect set up (which there isn't) that leaves all the other possible set ups as just being wrong, ie the chance of screwing up your suspensions performance is higher than getting it right on a fully adjustable set up.

People that really understand how compression/rebound damping, spring rates/lengths and ride height etc affect a vehicles handling are few and far between in this world, even amongst experienced racers and tuners, (just look at the F1 field and the inability of the majority of the drivers to actually give real accurate feedback to the designers in how to develop the cars set up), so what chance will your average joe car driver have to set their car up correctly. Close to zero, that's what.

Also, ask yourself this question. Even if you knew how to set up a suspension correctly, are you really going to adjust it every time you decide to take a different route to work?? If not, then the suspension will always be a compromise performance wise. Given that is the case why have suspension that you can adjust at all??

Fully adjustable suspensions are a waste of money on a road car. To say nothing of race track suspension set-ups being just the plain wrong type of suspension for a car that's going to be driven on the road.

cuprablue.

 

[ibizacupra]

but to say coilies are not good for the road is'nt right.
PSS9 billies... nice and simply to use, some adjustment in damping/rebound in same adjustment, nice on the road, and adjustable... You can setup what you prefer as a handling balance, which might not be the same as x,y,z companies fixed units setup engineers.

horses for courses.
both have their merits.

 

[davet175]

if you are in to understanding suspension and using corner weight scales you can get a lot from coilovers but like others have said the majority buy them for lowering the car and not as a suspension mod. any coilovers will work but you may need to get them revalved by someone like aurok in hampshire who build ohlins for most of the uk race scene

 

[MarkE]

If the kids want to go with coilovers rather than the old fashioned method of cutting the coils down, that's fine with me.

But I'm sure a lot of people buy fancy, multi-adjustable models and then never have them set up correctly (out of the box, the dampers are probably not preset for driving around with 4 passengers and the car slammed to the floor...).

 

[speedsix]

Damper tuning is an extremely complex topic, it's not just a case of 'stiff or soft'. I seriously doubt the majority can tune them correctly.

 

[jamiebennett81]

thanks for the comments guys...has put my mind to rest a little

I think then I will go for the KW Variant 1's...as to be honest, adjusting the suspension on Gran Turismo is alot more easier than on the real road!

as someone said, too many things to adjust, is just another part to break

I am sure the KW Variant 1's will do their job nicely. I am not looking to slam it at all...just a nice drop, but with the ability to change the ride height if need be

its more for handling that I am doing this, and to get ride of my wollowy (if thats how you spell it) MK1 suspension...as it is starting to creak and and with the new wheels coming along, the suspension will finish off the look nicely...but finally give me that better cornering ability!

 

[Ruddmeister]

I'd agree with most of what has been written about coilovers being expensive / overkill etc but I had Bilstein PSS Coilovers on a Mk1 Leon and found them to be an excellent compromise. In retrospect I think a Eibach Springs and Koni FSD dampers would have been just as good and saved me a few hundred ££££.

As an aside i'd also recommend fitting a decent set of Anti-Roll Bars, kits are available for all Leons (except the LCR) from Eibach and H&R and will greatly improve the handling......infact i'd go so far as to say ARB's will give a bigger difference than Coilovers

 

[jamiebennett81]

I'd agree with most of what has been written about coilovers being expensive / overkill etc but I had Bilstein PSS Coilovers on a Mk1 Leon and found them to be an excellent compromise. In retrospect I think a Eibach Springs and Koni FSD dampers would have been just as good and saved me a few hundred ££££.

As an aside i'd also recommend fitting a decent set of Anti-Roll Bars, kits are available for all Leons (except the LCR) from Eibach and H&R and will greatly improve the handling......infact i'd go so far as to say ARB's will give a bigger difference than Coilovers

thanks Rudd

I always thought the Bilsteins were way too hard for normal road use (given the state of the roads today)

Which would people opt for on here then, Bilsteins or KW's?

 

[speedinsaxo]

I went for KWs

 

[Ruddmeister]

Are the KW's stainless steel?

If so go for them, Bilsteins need a bit of greasing up to protect from salt, stainless steel should be better.

The Bilsteins are still an excellent choice IMO

 

[jamiebennett81]

just bought them and they are now on their way....wheels will be refurbed and done by this Saturday

next thing is to just wrap them in four Toyo T1-R's and thats her all done (apart from the remap of course)

 

[jamiebennett81]

Are the KW's stainless steel?

If so go for them, Bilsteins need a bit of greasing up to protect from salt, stainless steel should be better.

The Bilsteins are still an excellent choice IMO

yeah they are SS...part of KW's new Inox line means they are rust free etc (well thats the marketing blurb)

 

[SHADY-NINJA]

i love my Weitec Hicon tx coz it made me realise how much traction/grip i lost before the coilies.
its coilovers all the way for me.

 

[dainott2105]

Im using Koni FSD's and eibach springs and since fitting them im amazed in the difference in handling, but not to much difference in ride comfort. Really pleased with the results and looking forward to getting them matched up with some ARB's soon and watching cars trying to catch me through the twisties
I didnt go for coilovers for the main reason being discussed above, which is that i dont think i would ever get them setup perfectly for the road and if i went on the track then would probably spend half the day trying to set them up. Understand that people like coilovers but dont see the point in buying them unless you know exactly what your doing, but just my opinion so no shouting lol

 

[jamiebennett81]

well the KW Variant 1's are now ordered, and should be arriving soon....

went on peoples advice, that in actual reality, yes it's cool to say you can adjust the rebound rate etc etc...but would I ever be messing around with it? would I know what I am doing with it and would I ever be adjusting it that often? NO

After this thread and your comments, I have gone for the fit and forget option, much easier, as my car will probably never see a track (enough stone chips on it already) and I know it will give superior road handling improvements over the standard setup

thanks for all your help on this guys, it allowed me to come to a decision

 

[Gnollins]

Apologies in advance for slight thread hijack!

I've been thinking about changing the suspension on my LCR, however I don't want to lower it as I already kill a LCR splitter about once every 3 months. Would a set of Koni FSDs and Eibachs lower it at all? Or are they height adjustable when fitting?