Rattly smokey engine, need some ideas.

[Cupra R 231]

Got a 115 tdi (golf) and it fairly suddenly started tapping quite loudly. Its the misus car and she commutes a good 70 miles when at work.
She finally got round to telling me about the tapping engine so I had a listen and then realised how bad it was although it still idled and pulled smoothly. At this point it didn't smoke but after a trip across town if you start it from cold plumes of diesel smoke and a good smell of it in the air are chuffed out the back acompanied by the nasty tapping noise.
Hearing about the cam gear being a bit of a problem on these motors I Hoped it was a worn cam or a hyd tappet had split or gone wrong in a major way..
I've pulled the cam out which doesn't appear to have a great deal of wear on it and pulled all the tappets out and there's no imediate fault with any of them but I've no idea how to check them properly, and the cam followers for the injector pumps are all very smooth and don't appear to have any problems
The only wear I have found was on a couple of the bottom half shell bearings for the cam where 1 is just showing a small amount of copper backing, no score marks or signs of overheating just a a bit worn.. I'll replace the shells because of the wear but I'm faily sure that would not be causing the problem..
Anybody have any ideas.. Is there any way of checking the individual injector pumps and the tappets or is it going to be an expensive exsercise of replacing everything I think it might be...
Might shortly pull the sump off and check oil pick up.. Should of taken it to a garage really and got them to check the oil pressure that could of shown some problems up.....

Any help or previous simlar problems with these engines, any info helpful at the moment.....

 

[glynnd]

I have the same problem, fitted new tappets but not the cam as it looked fine but still making the tapping noise. however mine does not smoke so your problem could be an injector fault. Get it on vag com and look at the values for the injectors which should be between -2.8 and +2.8. If outside this then thay are damaged. Toyota have had a problem with d4d engines and the injectors are over 5 making diesel knock which could sound like a rattle or ticking noise.
Hope this is your problem because I have checked mine and they are fine my only option now is to replace the cam but cant see how it will stop the ticking or I have a little end problem.
Does your car make the noise when its cold?
Glynn

 

[sssstew]

yes agreed im thinking its an injector issue here in this case.

 

[Cupra R 231]

Yeah it makes this noise hot and cold last time it was hot it never smoked but not leaving it long enough to heat up to find out if it still smokes..
Cam looks fine but does anyone know of any measurments for the cam lobes so I can measuse them just to see.. Think I'll try a new set of tappets and shells bearings and go from there.. If it still rattling then I'll take it somewhere that can check the oil pressure and then try and get vag-com on it. I've got vag-com but it must be a cheap lead because it only seams to work the once, after that it can't find anything unless you reset the ecu by leaving batt off over night, then it works again but just the once. Well thats how it works on my bitza cupra r.
Thanks for the info...
Looks like its gonna be 1 of those really annoying to find problems......

 

[logan2769]

Hi mate I am in the same boat as you ,the way to check your lifters is when the cam and lifters are in place, you place a screw driver between the cam and the lifter as if you were trying to force the tappet down is it feels soft its gone of course be careful not to score anything.
I am interested in seeing where this ends up; sounds like you’re on a mission to find the problem
Just how loud is the noise, when I was down my mates garage the other day he had a vw golf 97 mk3tdi and that was making one hell of a tap I mean F* loud turns out the guy whose car it was at he wits end with it and the day before he brought it in he drove it to Bristol do or die mission,anyways he had replaced loads of stuff and still the tapping in the end he went for a recon head turned out that they hadn’t replaced all the tappets with new ones. It was the last thing the garage checked because he said the head was a recon.

 

[Cupra R 231]

Yeah already tried that with the tappets and to be honest they were all pretty easy to push down, but some were certainly easier than others....
I'm gonna go with the tappets for time being and go from there. just hoping that its not a lack of oil pressure due to other things being worn out, like the mains or big end.....
Grrrrrr
Don't mind problems that I can fix but when I don't know what it is, its a right royal pain in the arse...
O and the noise is pretty dam loud... But what seems like only 1 or possibly 2 tappets at most if thats what it is......

 

[logan2769]

I very much doubt it’s the big or little ends little ends tend to have a pinging sound and big ends more off grrrrrrrr

 

[glynnd]

I dont think I have a little end gone or that its what has happened to yours. Maybe the only cure is new cam and lifters with the associated shell bearing etc.. AW engineering supply new kits with for pd at £300 plus vat however you need new bolts on the roller rockers adding another £40 to the bill!
Glynn

 

[Cupra R 231]

I've now been assured by a reputable engine builder that its more than likely the little end has gone which is also why it is now smoking.
He says 8 out of 10 pd engines he has in are all little end problems due to a very small contact area (about 10mm).....
From the way he described it to me it definately sounds like this could be the problem...
As good as it is to hopefully find the problem the next thing I have is now the task of pulling the sump and head off and lifting the pistons and rods out. O what joy!!!! This wouldn't be half as bad if I didn't have to lay on my back on my drive way while its getting ever closer to winter...... Grrrrrrrr..
Wonder what else I might find whilst pulling it all to bits.. doh...

 

[goble]

your problem is down to worn injectors,a common problem that causes your problem.
These people repair them for you.
http://www.testdieselservices.co.uk/Automotive Engines.htm

 

[Cupra R 231]

The problem isn't down to injectors..
Got the head off today and I can lift piston number 4 up and down by a considerable amount... So think the chaps I talked to were right..
Bottom end apart moro so will know for sure.....
Thanks for all the help chaps..

 

[glynnd]

Keep us posted as I may then have the same problem
Glynn

 

[Cupra R 231]

Got the pistons and rods out over the weekend and sure enough 1 of the little end bearing bushes has disintegrated....
how long has yours been tapping for?
This 1 started as a tap but very rapidly got louder so if it is a little end you'll know in no time at all...
Slight downside is as far as I've found out you can't just get the bearing bushes and press a new set in (although it has damaged 1 rod) they only come with a new set of rods so this could become rather expensive....
+ side is all the big end bearing shells are in perfect condition....

 

[glynnd]

Mine has done 109k and has been tapping for approx 3k but does not seem to be getting louder or worse. Tha rods are apparently about £400 a set but aw engineering will sell you individual rods at about £110 i think. You are correct that little end bearings are not available seperately which is ridiculous given that little end failure seems to be a common problem. Suppose the good side is that when all the work ios done you have almost a brand new engine which should last forever?
Glynn
By the way which one has failed is it number two or three apparently its either of the two middle cylinders that fails also did yours tap when it was cold as mine does not?

 

[logan2769]

sorry to hear about your car,but at least you know what it is,might be worth ringing part co for your rods.
I don't think mine problem is the liitle ends as my tapping nosie has been the same for months

 

[glynnd]

I dont honestly believe mine is a little end problem as mine has also been doing for a while. I just dont want it to fail suddenly if I can prevent it. The drawback is will need a full strip down to confirm if its the little end.
Glynn

 

[glynnd]

Cupra have you got it all back together yet?
Glynn