Can sombody please remind me that REVO stage 2 + doesnt kill clutches ??? Do Revo recormend a upgraded clutch for stage 2 +?
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Revs on Cupra
- Thread starter adam23
- Start date
Guys a link to a vod of my car, not brill but the start will give you an idea of what is happening.. Its a 4th gear pull from around 40mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQvmlX68ZQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQvmlX68ZQ
Why would it? My car was fine on a standard clutch for 30+k and the car was sold with it refitted and no issues.
This is exactly what mine did (in 4th and 5th).
My car did 50.000 km with at least 340 bhp and 450 Nm and the clutch still wasn't at it's end. Decide to keep the car a bit longer and wanted to benefit from and uprated clutch (indstead of having to put one in just before selling).
Driving style will account for it so much more than what software is installed on the car.
I'm sorry but there can be some bollocks floating about in regards to what people expect a stock clutch to handle.
Any stage 2+ car can be pushing up to and above 100hp more than the standard car, and a shed load more torque than the stock clutch was ever designed to cope with.
Why is that a problem of the code? It wouldn't matter who writes the code, the car is operating way above its OEM specifications.
Cause and Effect people, you increase a cars power way beyond its operating parameters and stuff needs up-rating to both cope with the modifications and have longevity. Its quite simple to understand, why is it so difficult to grasp that these parts can and do fail when they are quite clearly pushing a lot more power than they were designed for as standard.
If you don't want to invest in a stonger clutch kit, or any other uprated parts simply keep it as the manufacturer intended, or go no further than stage 1. No one is forcing you to modify.
Any stage 2+ car can be pushing up to and above 100hp more than the standard car, and a shed load more torque than the stock clutch was ever designed to cope with.
Why is that a problem of the code? It wouldn't matter who writes the code, the car is operating way above its OEM specifications.
Cause and Effect people, you increase a cars power way beyond its operating parameters and stuff needs up-rating to both cope with the modifications and have longevity. Its quite simple to understand, why is it so difficult to grasp that these parts can and do fail when they are quite clearly pushing a lot more power than they were designed for as standard.
If you don't want to invest in a stonger clutch kit, or any other uprated parts simply keep it as the manufacturer intended, or go no further than stage 1. No one is forcing you to modify.
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i understand what ya sayin guys but i think Stage 2 + should come with the recommendation of a upgraded clutch cos a lot of people have killed the clutch in not that many miles with stage 2 +. Zboyd not sure if your askin me about a problem with the code cos i never said there was a problem there, I just think they should advise on there website that with 2+ a upgraded clutch is recommended cos clearly not everbody realises that clutch life becomes a issue. Or maybe that telling tuners that you'll gunna need a ~£700 clutch job if you have this tune on your car might just put people off?
Seems to me you are weighing in on one particular software provider, that its just REVO that kills clutches. Fact remains, anyone that modifies should expect parts to fail. Its outside the OEM specifications. To accomplish Stage 2+ a clutch isn't required, but the car has been modified way beyond its design parameters, so you have to accept that longevity of parts will be and is reduced.
If you don't want to be in that position, don't modify.
Agreed, driving style is a big factor on clutch longevity, and even flakey OEM clutches, which can't be discounted either.
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Seems to me you are weighing in on one particular software provider, that its just REVO that kills clutches. Fact remains, anyone that modifies should expect parts to fail. Its outside the OEM specifications. To accomplish Stage 2+ a clutch isn't required, but the car has been modified way beyond its design parameters, so you have to accept that longevity of parts will be and is reduced.
If you don't want to be in that position, don't modify.
Agreed, driving style is a big factor on clutch longevity, and even flakey OEM clutches, which can't be discounted either.
I am weighing in on one particular software provider in this instance as it's REVO that has been installed on the car. The point i'm making is that, tuning companies need to be more open with there advice and there recommendations and the effect that these will have on your car, cos they are straight there advertising your big BHP increase but they don't advertise the draw backs of having it done.
"If you don't want to be in that position, don't modify.
" I read it the first time! Also why does it turn into a which hunt as soon as you say anything that is unfavorable to REVO? i just look for honest answers and straight up advise.
Fair enough - Be aware that people on here have had clutches go on cars with OEM ECU's flashed by any number of tuners
Tuning companies should do a diagnostic check on the ECU and engine components prior to flashing it with new code. The general condition of the car including the clutch/tyres etc is not their problem although I would imagine that a reputable company would probably flash the car back to stock should their be any issues after flashing the ECU.
Remember the code is designed and tested on a car with the same hardware as yours, so any failings on your car could be down to any number of things. Using your analogy though, should tuners also recommend sticky tyres like 888's so that the extra power/torque is delivered toward forward motion than just wheelspin? Should they advocate bigger brakes so the car can stop from its higher top speed? Should they recommend a limited slip differential to ensure the extra power/torque is controlled in a more meaningful fashion coming out of bends?
"If you don't want to be in that position, don't modify.
Maybe, but you did not take in the point that was being made.
You would get the same reaction if you came on and said about CC/Shark/GIAC/APR etc etc. You are getting honest answers and advice, but clearly not listening.
I will state one more time. My car ran the 1/4 mile a lot and was the first in to the 12's. It got driven hard. It was one of the first Leons with Revo and it was the first with Revo Stage 2+. It ran its original clutch for over 30,000 miles and was sold with the car with NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER.
The fact that your car has a slipping clutch has absolutely no relevance to what software your car has - more likely that you or the previous owner have driven in a fashion that has caused it to wear prematurely, which may have been accentuated by non OEM code. As mentioned before, the clutch (like the engine/gearbox/suspension/brakes) are designed for 240bhp and just over 200ftlbs. As soon as you run 360bhp and 340ftlbs, you are ultimately asking the car to do more than it was ever designed to.
As for tuning companies, I think you will find Zboyds clutch was slipping with APR code and Blades clutch slipped with GIAC, both with little over 10000 miles on them. Try a search, and you will find a lot of info on here, www.mk5golfgti.co.uk and other VAG forums
I am weighing in on one particular software provider in this instance as it's REVO that has been installed on the car. The point i'm making is that, tuning companies need to be more open with there advice and there recommendations and the effect that these will have on your car, cos they are straight there advertising your big BHP increase but they don't advertise the draw backs of having it done.
"If you don't want to be in that position, don't modify.
Also why does it turn into a which hunt as soon as you say anything that is unfavorable to REVO? i just look for honest answers and straight up advise.
In your own words "tuning companies (not just REVO) need to be more open" perhaps that's true, but then on the same hand people should also take responsibility for their actions in tuning their cars outside OEM specs.
SEAT say quite clearly under their warranty guidelines, don't do it.
So by doing any kind of modification you've already made a choice to disregard official advice.
REVO and other tuners beside offer their services, simply because there is a market for it. But at the end of the day 'ANY' modification is potentially a risk to longevity of parts. So the same applies to all aftermarket tuners, whether they sell you software or hardware.
It's not rocket science that when you increase the input of something originally designed to take a lot less power, that you're increasing its chances of early failure.
I reiterate, if you go into modifications without some real world expectation that your choices can and will have a direct cause and effect on longevity of parts then you really shouldn't be doing it.
Fact remains a clutch could go at any point, whether it's a standard car or a car with any level of tune by any 'other" tuner. It could be a manufacturing fault with the clutch, or the driving style of the owner or that its got more power than the OEM manufacturer ever intended it to have. Take your choice because all them and more besides can all factor into it.
Just saying one particular tuner or one level of tune is the sole responsibility of clutch failure, and that they should warn customers in advance of something that may or may not happen is frankly a poor argument to make, when that same customer already took the action to completely ignore the manufacturer of the cars advice.
The trouble these days is that everyone wants their arse wiped for them.
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First rev increase looked more like wheelspin as you had a wee disco going on your dash
. Second one may have been slip. Either way, you are mechanically harsh revving a cold engine like that Fair enough - Be aware that people on here have had clutches go on cars with OEM ECU's flashed by any number of tuners
Tuning companies should do a diagnostic check on the ECU and engine components prior to flashing it with new code. The general condition of the car including the clutch/tyres etc is not their problem although I would imagine that a reputable company would probably flash the car back to stock should their be any issues after flashing the ECU.
Remember the code is designed and tested on a car with the same hardware as yours, so any failings on your car could be down to any number of things. Using your analogy though, should tuners also recommend sticky tyres like 888's so that the extra power/torque is delivered toward forward motion than just wheelspin? Should they advocate bigger brakes so the car can stop from its higher top speed? Should they recommend a limited slip differential to ensure the extra power/torque is controlled in a more meaningful fashion coming out of bends?
Maybe, but you did not take in the point that was being made.
You would get the same reaction if you came on and said about CC/Shark/GIAC/APR etc etc. You are getting honest answers and advice, but clearly not listening.
I will state one more time. My car ran the 1/4 mile a lot and was the first in to the 12's. It got driven hard. It was one of the first Leons with Revo and it was the first with Revo Stage 2+. It ran its original clutch for over 30,000 miles and was sold with the car with NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER.
The fact that your car has a slipping clutch has absolutely no relevance to what software your car has - more likely that you or the previous owner have driven in a fashion that has caused it to wear prematurely, which may have been accentuated by non OEM code. As mentioned before, the clutch (like the engine/gearbox/suspension/brakes) are designed for 240bhp and just over 200ftlbs. As soon as you run 360bhp and 340ftlbs, you are ultimately asking the car to do more than it was ever designed to.
As for tuning companies, I think you will find Zboyds clutch was slipping with APR code and Blades clutch slipped with GIAC, both with little over 10000 miles on them. Try a search, and you will find a lot of info on here, www.mk5golfgti.co.uk and other VAG forums
Al thanks for proving my point, how do you want me to respond to your comments above with out going way of topic???
just to point out a few things to you mate. you make a point of stating that i'm either missing the point or not clearly not listening, but in your haste to type nonsense quote: "The fact that your car has a slipping clutch has absolutely no relevance to what software your car has - more likely that you or the previous owner have driven in a fashion that has caused it to wear prematurely" It's not my car with the issue my friend...
O and just to so it's clear to you upgraded tyres, diff and bigger breaks are a niceity and not paramount to your cars ability to get you from a to b as the existing standard cupra set up are sufficient but the clutch is clearly not up to the job..
ZBOYD : "Just saying one particular tuner or one level of tune is the sole responsibility of clutch failure, and that they should warn customers in advance of something that may or may not happen is frankly a poor argument to make, when that same customer already took the action to completely ignore the manufacturer of the cars advice.
The trouble these days is that everyone wants their arse wiped for them."
What?? Ok then i take it back all the guys who have posted on seat cupra.net whos clutches have gone under 30K who had revo installed it is completely coincidence or lazy driving!! (your not real!!) the point i make is you guys need to stop blowing smoke up tuning company's arses as we all pay through the nose to have our cars modded and its not about having your arse wiped as you so tactfully put it, it about us (the customers) not being taken for idiots when tuning companies bring out a new tune that has detrimental effects on the clutch and them not saying anything about it. Cant you see that all they do is see us as cash cows and if anybody raises the issue on the forums they know the person will be shot down by there loyal SS hit squad because you dared to say somthing bad about revo or CC or who eva!!
You keep on believing that then, because it's one I simply don't agree with. I was wondering how long it would be for Godwins Law to apply.
Mine had APR, others had GIAC and others were even stock.
You missed the point entirely, that by tuning the car in the first place you have already made a choice that can and does effect longevity of OEM parts.
My advice is if you have even the slightest reservations about any tuning, don't do it. I don't have any reservations about the choices I have made, and I'm quite happy with my choices and happy with the outcome, for me it works as I anticipated it would.
Your getting all het up over it, and I'm simply giving you my opinions.
I was wondering how long it would be for Godwins Law to apply. Mine had APR, others had GIAC and others were even stock.
You missed the point entirely, that by tuning the car in the first place you have already made a choice that can and does effect longevity of OEM parts.
My advice is if you have even the slightest reservations about any tuning, don't do it. I don't have any reservations about the choices I have made, and I'm quite happy with my choices and happy with the outcome, for me it works as I anticipated it would.
Your getting all het up over it, and I'm simply giving you my opinions.
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You keep on believing that then, because it's one I simply don't agree with.
Mine had APR, others had GIAC and others were even stock.
You missed the point entirely, that by tuning the car in the first place you have already made a choice that can and does effect longevity of OEM parts.
My advice is if you have even the slightest reservations about any tuning, don't do it. I don't have any reservations about the choices I have made, and I'm quite happy with my choices and happy with the outcome, for me it works as I anticipated it would.
Your getting all het up over it, and I'm simply giving you my opinions.
LOL i will, I got your point first time, just think that in the name of capitalism we get a **** deal some times and i know what your saying about modding your car all 3 of my VAGs where modded £0000s spent but not every body knows about the pitfalls.. and whos job is it to tell them?
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