Revs on Cupra

[Al]

Al thanks for proving my point, how do you want me to respond to your comments above with out going way of topic??? just to point out a few things to you mate. you make a point of stating that i'm either missing the point or not clearly not listening, but in your haste to type nonsense quote:

"The fact that your car has a slipping clutch has absolutely no relevance to what software your car has - more likely that you or the previous owner have driven in a fashion that has caused it to wear prematurely" It's not my car with the issue my friend...

O and just to so it's clear to you upgraded tyres, diff and bigger breaks are a niceity and not paramount to your cars ability to get you from a to b as the existing standard cupra set up are sufficient but the clutch is clearly not up to the job..

ZBOYD : "Just saying one particular tuner or one level of tune is the sole responsibility of clutch failure, and that they should warn customers in advance of something that may or may not happen is frankly a poor argument to make, when that same customer already took the action to completely ignore the manufacturer of the cars advice.

The trouble these days is that everyone wants their arse wiped for them."

What?? Ok then i take it back all the guys who have posted on seat cupra.net whos clutches have gone under 30K who had revo installed it is completely coincidence or lazy driving!! (your not real!!) the point i make is you guys need to stop blowing smoke up tuning company's arses as we all pay through the nose to have our cars modded and its not about having your arse wiped as you so tactfully put it, it about us (the customers) not being taken for idiots when tuning companies bring out a new tune that has detrimental effects on the clutch and them not saying anything about it. Cant you see that all they do is see us as cash cows and if anybody raises the issue on the forums they know the person will be shot down by there loyal SS hit squad because you dared to say somthing bad about revo or CC or who eva!!

 

[Al]

LOL i will, I got your point first time, just think that in the name of capitalism we get a **** deal some times and i know what your saying about modding your car all 3 of my VAGs where modded £0000s spent but not every body knows about the pitfalls.. and whos job is it to tell them?

The manufacturer!

As stated already, as soon as you modifiy your car, you will put the components affected by the modifications out of warranty. A remap will invalidate engine, turbo and ECU warranties, and possibly drivetrain components. The clutch is the least of your worries.

This Nanny State appears to have you brainwashed a bit. Putting your thoughts in line with other businesses - Do Indian restaurants tell their customers that the food they are eating will make them fat? Do Ski Centres tell you that you are running the risk of breaking bones when you fall over?

I really hope you are you taking the piss....

 

[BIGAR]

The manufacturer!

As stated already, as soon as you modifiy your car, you will put the components affected by the modifications out of warranty. A remap will invalidate engine, turbo and ECU warranties, and possibly drivetrain components. The clutch is the least of your worries.

This Nanny State appears to have you brainwashed a bit. Putting your thoughts in line with other businesses - Do Indian restaurants tell their customers that the food they are eating will make them fat? Do Ski Centres tell you that you are running the risk of breaking bones when you fall over?

I really hope you are you taking the piss....

Na the tuning company... your comparisons are so far of topic they are irrelevant warranty for one has nothing to do with the point I made. I point out that REVO stage 2+ kills clutches which it does and all of a sudden you've been brainwashed by the nanny state?? PMSL. AL you need to stop hanging out the back of REVO it's gettin hard for me to figure out where REVO end and you begin!

 

[ZBOYD]

Your getting to be quite entertaining now. Anyone would think your Trolling this subject.

REVO Stage 2+ doesn't kill clutches anymore than any other tuning company or any vigorous driving style.

My car ran with Stg2+ APR until very recently for more than 2 years which had around 10-15% less power than Stg2+ REVO and it was slipping the clutch. There have been completely standard cars with slipping clutches, and code has been no where near them.

What you exclaim to point out as being the fault of only one tuning company is in fact a common complaint of many a tuned car with an OEM clutch. Tuned diesels for example are in some cases pushing out as much or even more torque than Stg2+ petrol cars. Guess what they suffer from clutch slip too and more commonly from my experience than the petrol engines.

Tuning has the result of increasing output, that means OEM parts are now working outside their specification, and that surely as not can increase their chances of wearing out prematurely.

Folks should not be under any illusions, when you modify you 'may' encounter problems associated with the modification. Whether it be a remap or a £30 panel filter.

I reiterate, if your in anyway unsure about modifying and are not comfortable with the pitfalls...simples Don't Do It!!

 

[DandB]

I did 20+k miles on my K03 2.0T audi Revo stage 1, with no issues!

I did 30k+ miles on my k04 Cupra Revo stage 1, with no issues!

When i decided to go to stage 2+, i was advised by the Revo tuner that i would be producing more power and torque than the oem clutch was built for, so obviously and eventually it would need upgrading to a clutch that was built for this type of power!

 

[BIGAR]

Your getting to be quite entertaining now. Anyone would think your Trolling this subject.

REVO Stage 2+ doesn't kill clutches anymore than any other tuning company or any vigorous driving style.

My car ran with Stg2+ APR until very recently for more than 2 years which had around 10-15% less power than Stg2+ REVO and it was slipping the clutch. There have been completely standard cars with slipping clutches, and code has been no where near them.

What you exclaim to point out as being the fault of only one tuning company is in fact a common complaint of many a tuned car with an OEM clutch. Tuned diesels for example are in some cases pushing out as much or even more torque than Stg2+ petrol cars. Guess what they suffer from clutch slip too and more commonly from my experience than the petrol engines.

Tuning has the result of increasing output, that means OEM parts are now working outside their specification, and that surely as not can increase their chances of wearing out prematurely.

Folks should not be under any illusions, when you modify you 'may' encounter problems associated with the modification. Whether it be a remap or a £30 panel filter.

I reiterate, if your in anyway unsure about modifying and are not comfortable with the pitfalls...simples Don't Do It!!

Zboyd I’m not disputing any of the above, but from what I have seen a lot of the revo maps tend to have a large boost spike or produce peak torque at ~ 3000 which is coincidently where the revs are when tootling along the road this does a number of things peak torque at ~3000 pushes you hard back in the seat (plenty of torque on tap) and puts maximum stain on you clutch at what I would call normal driving RPMs hence clutches dying at low miles, my advise would be to anybody who maps there car is to get the tuning company WHO EVER it may be! To create the map so that peak torque is around 4K or lower the headline torque figure buts sustain torque levels further up the rev range. As we all know its the torque that gives you the feeling of speed and the big shove lower down the rev range comes at a cost of less torque higher up the rev range and early death to OEM components. Just My opinion!

 

[ZBOYD]

Turn the boost down then, less boost less torque.

That's why its adjustable, but most folks seems to think more means better and automatically turn everything up. In some cases it does, but then you have to apply the modifications that are suitable for the power to get the best from it. Stage 2+ is there as an option for those people that want more performance, most in my experience are not afraid to shell out for the parts they need to accomplish what they want.

Most graphs I've seen from many tuners, are hitting peak torque at 3k rpms, my APR certainly was. In fact look at a stock car graph and it will be making its peak torque at 3k.

Again comes down to driving style too, if your lunching on the car at low rpms then its going to wear on the clutch. Hard acceleration through the gears is not the same as cruising around at 3k rpms in 4th gear for example. But dragging a car lazily in one high gear from low rpms to high rpms will also be punishing to the friction plate.

If the car is hooned everywhere, with punishing low rpm accelerations then its going to feel it in due course too.

The problem on my clutch and on others I am aware of was high rpms, 5k plus, so the logic is slightly flawed as this is where the torque is less. My experience indicated that the pressure plate of the OEM clutch is unable to hold the friction plate in place when encountering high rpms, but it was quite happy biting all day at low and mid-range.

I switched to a Helix organic kit to put a kit in place that was designed to cope with the power. Some people may not bother, but I think the car drives far better with an up-rated clutch.

 

[Al]

my advise would be to anybody who maps there car is to get the tuning company WHO EVER it may be! To create the map so that peak torque is around 4K or lower the headline torque figure buts sustain torque levels further up the rev range. As we all know its the torque that gives you the feeling of speed and the big shove lower down the rev range comes at a cost of less torque higher up the rev range and early death to OEM components. Just My opinion!

You need a Superchips map then lad . Nothing happens til 4000rpm and you have lower peak figures which tend to last for longer.

You will find if you search that there are a lot less happy Superchips customers than Revo customers. As ZBoyd said, Revo offers adjustability with the map. Just because you can up the settings to the max, doesn't mean you should unless your hardware components are fit for it.

 

[BIGAR]

Turn the boost down then, less boost less torque.

That's why its adjustable, but most folks seems to think more means better and automatically turn everything up. In some cases it does, but then you have to apply the modifications that are suitable for the power to get the best from it.

Most graphs I've seen from many tuners, are hitting peak torque at 3k rpms, my APR certainly was. In fact look at a stock car graph and it will be making its peak torque at 3k.

Again comes down to driving style too, if your lunching on the car at low rpms then its going to wear on the clutch. Hard acceleration through the gears is not the same as cruising around at 3k rpms in 4th gear for example.

If the car is hooned everywhere, with punishing low rpm accelerations then its going to feel it in due course.

The problem on my clutch and on others I am aware of was high rpms, 5k plus, so the logic is slightly flawed as this is where the torque is less. My experience indicated that the pressure plate of the OEM clutch is unable to hold the friction plate in place when encountering high rpms. but it was quite happy biting all day at low and mid-range.

I agree again but my stock map didnt make peak at 3 IIRC it was more like 4K i got the RR somewhere i'll have a look but at stock levels of torque that’s fine. it's the ware and tear on ya clutch at low RPM caused primarily by aggressive maps that makes it slip higher up the rev range

 

[BIGAR]

You need a Superchips map then lad . Nothing happens til 4000rpm and you have lower peak figures which tend to last for longer.

You will find if you search that there are a lot less happy Superchips customers than Revo customers. As ZBoyd said, Revo offers adjustability with the map. Just because you can up the settings to the max, doesn't mean you should unless your hardware components are fit for it.

How may people with superchips map clutch dies before 20K my son?.. besides all that sh1t, have you compared the main tuners sided by side in the real worlds on real roads? or are you just talking out your arses again? because revo feels faster!!!.

 

[Al]

:w4nk:

Off to find the ignore button.

 

[BIGAR]

is that a no then?

 

[ZBOYD]

I agree again but my stock map didnt make peak at 3 IIRC it was more like 4K i got the RR somewhere i'll have a look but at stock levels of torque that’s fine. it's the ware and tear on ya clutch at low RPM caused primarily by aggressive maps that makes it slip higher up the rev range

In your opinion, in mine not so much.

If its going to slip it will slip where the torque is at peak, not at the top of the rev band where its already falling away.

Your changing your tune, now its aggressive maps at 3krpm that cause a clutch to slip at 5k+rpm.

Make up your mind.

 

[Al]

How may people with superchips map clutch dies before 20K my son?.. besides all that sh1t, have you compared the main tuners sided by side in the real worlds on real roads? or are you just talking out your arses again? because revo feels faster!!!.

Here is a question for you. How exactly am I supposed to know how may (think you meant many) people with superchips map have clutch problems?

You review reports from owners on this forum, and there have been reports of clutches failing/slipping on standard cars with standard clutches. Try a search (big tab at the top that says SEARCH).

As for comparing similar cars with different code side by side in the real world, yes I have performance wise, but that has got nothing whatsoever to do with anything that is being discussed here.

So, its not a no. Maybe you should come back once you have actually done some research and found some facts rather than type a bunch of bullshit with massive amounts of spelling and grammatical errors and text talk (which is against forum rules ).

Even better why not contact Revo yourself and suggest they modify their web site to have the recommended upgrades for Stage 3 to be added to Stage 1, Stage 2 and Stage 2+ if it makes you feel any better (engine mounts/clutch). You do afterall seem to have a bit of an axe to grind with them

 

[BIGAR]

In your opinion, in mine not so much.

If its going to slip it will slip where the torque is at peak, not at the top of the rev band where its already falling away.

Your changing your tune, now its aggressive maps at 3krpm that cause a clutch to slip at 5k+rpm.

Make up your mind.

Did'nt want to keep saying revo but if the shoe fits and all! Look Zboyd your looking at this from one dimension you forgetting about the centrifugal forces at high RPM but im not going to give you a lecture about the laws of physics but as i keep pointing out the level of ware and tear on the clutch with maps that have torque spikes at about 3K for the reasons i'v stated earlyer is the major factor…

 

[Al]

Did'nt want to keep saying revo but if the shoe fits and all!

So you do mean Revo.

Look Zboyd your looking at this from one dimension

Which dimension? The fifth dimension?

you forgetting about the centrifugal forces at high RPM

Is that so . Which centrifugal forces are they then? Quick, google it ASAP.

but im not going to give you a lecture about the laws of physics

Thats a bit of a shame as it would have provided some entertainment for the afternoon, or a challenge to see which web page you googled (see above )

but as i keep pointing out the level of ware and tear on the clutch with maps that have torque spikes at about 3K for the reasons i'v stated earlyer is the major factor…

 

[ZBOYD]

Did'nt want to keep saying revo but if the shoe fits and all! Look Zboyd your looking at this from one dimension you forgetting about the centrifugal forces at high RPM but im not going to give you a lecture about the laws of physics but as i keep pointing out the level of ware and tear on the clutch with maps that have torque spikes at about 3K for the reasons i'v stated earlyer is the major factor…

Please do, I'm interested to read it. I believe the problems lie with the pressure plate/ thrust bearing, its unable to keep itself seated. In fact when Awesome pulled mine to bits earlier this month to fit the Helix. Alan the mechanic noted that the stock clutch was in pretty good shape.

The fact remains that if you modify to this level, then you have to expect parts to fail or fall short of providing adequate performance. I was under no illusions that my clutch was likely to be on borrowed time, but its done most of its mileage with another tuners map that runs 10-15% less power than REVO (I'll add that REVO was only installed after the new clutch) so APR kills clutches. (you should post that on vortex you won't last a minute)

My car is low mileage but does much of its general mileage commuting as my daily driver, the worst situations on and off the clutch, stop start etc Some motorway occasionally and out on the A and B roads where I have my fun with it, and of course the occasional track day. It never failed to perform well other than the recent high rpms slippage, but the stock clutch was sloppy, weak and with generally poor performance that held the rest of the car back.

I recommend anyone contemplating Stg2+ to up-rate, but in truth I recommend anyone considering any level of remap from any tuner to consider a clutch kit at some point. Don't rely on a part made to handle 240hp to handle 300hp plus

 

[BIGAR]

Here is a question for you. How exactly am I supposed to know how may (think you meant many) people with superchips map have clutch problems?

You review reports from owners on this forum, and there have been reports of clutches failing/slipping on standard cars with standard clutches. Try a search (big tab at the top that says SEARCH).

As for comparing similar cars with different code side by side in the real world, yes I have performance wise, but that has got nothing whatsoever to do with anything that is being discussed here.

So, its not a no. Maybe you should come back once you have actually done some research and found some facts rather than type a bunch of bullshit with massive amounts of spelling and grammatical errors and text talk (which is against forum rules ).

Even better why not contact Revo yourself and suggest they modify their web site to have the recommended upgrades for Stage 3 to be added to Stage 1, Stage 2 and Stage 2+ if it makes you feel any better (engine mounts/clutch). You do afterall seem to have a bit of an axe to grind with them

No axe to grind with them at all i just pointed out that it looked like revo 2+ kills clutches! and all of a sudden i'm a revo hater ?? i dont understand it, as many times i have stated that my comments are relevent to ALL tuning companies and thanks for your advice about doing some research but i have had plenty of experience with tuning VAGS the 1.8 20VT, 2.0 TFSI and 3.2 R32 that’s why i tend to have a balanced opinion unlike some on here!.

 

[BIGAR]

So you do mean Revo.




Which dimension? The fifth dimension?




Is that so . Which centrifugal forces are they then? Quick, google it ASAP.



Thats a bit of a shame as it would have provided some entertainment for the afternoon, or a challenge to see which web page you googled (see above )

What’s up AL somebody proving your full of it and you don’t like it?

 

[Al]

No axe to grind with them at all i just pointed out that it looked like revo 2+ kills clutches! and all of a sudden i'm a revo hater ?? i dont understand it, as many times i have stated that my comments are relevent to ALL tuning companies and thanks for your advice about doing some research but i have had plenty of experience with tuning VAGS the 1.8 20VT, 2.0 TFSI and 3.2 R32 that’s why i tend to have a balanced opinion unlike some on here!.

I am wondering how many times you have contradicted yourself on this thread now.

With all your experience on tuning, knowhow and ability to teach people on the laws of Physics, I would have thought you do not need to come on here and ask people this....

Can sombody please remind me that REVO stage 2 + doesnt kill clutches ???

....and when someone does remind you that Revo Stage 2+ does not kill clutches, you choose to ignore it and still go off on one

My computer is fine by the way