Sports cat Downpipe

[Deano j1971]

Hi all, i posted a thread about this a few days ago but did not get a reply(maybe it’s been a topic on here before). I’ve got a 2017 st300 and I’ve had the resonator delete done,now it’s enhanced the pops&crackles abit ( not as loud as the hatch version).,and I want the noise to be louder when the right foot hits the floor especially after 3500-rpm but nothing to loud that will wake the neighbours up when I start her up in the mornings. I also don’t want the drone on a motorway run. She already has had a revo stage 1,so milltek are saying there downpipe has to have a stage 2 remap(can anyone explain why). Also there are scorpion and cobra to consider and I don’t know which one to go for. Does anyone know what I should be paying for installation cost as well. Thanks.


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[paddy6789]

I’ve got a large bore Miltek downpipe with 200 cell race cat - I needed it to go to stage 2 with Racingline. From what they told me, the reason the larger downpipe is needed is due to the turbo expecting and producing more air flow.

I have a 3inch system from the cat so it’s VERY bassy. The cracks have gone, but the pops on gear change and overrun are certainly there and are pretty much constant.


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[Deleted member 103408]

Deano I asked Revo if I could fit the bigger downpipe before I went to stage 2, (I was trying to get the hardware fitted in advance of the software)
The response I go was

If replacing the downpipe, you’ll need to have Stage 2 software to deal with the lambda changes, which means adding the FMIC at same point, otherwise you’ll be asking for issues with overboost and other problems.

Stage one (whilst a great map) does not need any other hardware changes (not to say you cant put some (Air Intake, FMIC) on but they are not required) For stage 2 the software needs the downpipe and Intercooler to work, so I am guessing that the Milltek (Which I also have) is designed to work on a Stage 2 upwards map)

I think I paid about a 100-00 plus vat for the fitting of full system and you also get the chance of having your old system back afterwards.

 

[Cupra Belfast]

You can fit a downpipe to a stage 1 tune if you use a HJS mini cat O2 spacer. You will still need a FMIC. The electronic waste gate controls may not function correctly without a stage 2 tune, leading to over boost conditions, potential turbo damage, heat issues and likely the car pulling boost in a panic from time to time. You can run the bolt ons with a JB4 as it will adapt for the parameters it reads. On it's own it will not yield as much power as a stage 2 tune, but doesn't dispense with manufacture set safety devices like rev limiters etc. It will control the waste gate effectively to prevent over boost etc. So with a DP you will need stage 2, most likely. You could also piggyback a JB4 over a stage 1, and then also add water/meth if you really wanted to turn the thing into a beast. Essentially you need to do something or a downpipe will likely cause issues. Erratic boost is possibly the most noticeable issue. The car can go into limp mode/pull the boost. Andrew on the forums is experienced in this. He knows more than I.

 

[Deano j1971]

Paddy6789, theoldboy,cupra Belfast. Thank you all for your input and information about this topic. I now understand why I will need a stage 2 along with the downpipe, the only problem now is which one I go for milltek,cobra,scorpion. I’m having the revo carbon series intake system installed next week, so I’m wondering if I should get my guy to do Downpipe+ stage 2 all in one go, should be pushing over 400 bhp+


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[Deleted member 103408]

Deano if you are going stage two you should also upgrade the Intercooler it is one of the requirements of the Revo upgrade.

Also if you are going stage 2 if you have not done so then you should consider the mount kits to help keep the power on the road.

And you need to consider if your brakes are up to the extra power.

 

[Deano j1971]

the oldboy, I’ve just been looking on the revo site for stage2 and it does recommend intercooler upgrade,do you know of any cheaper options as what I’m getting done will dent my bank balance this month, dog bone mounts I think I should be ok as I got the ST, any recommendations on big brake kits apart from revo or brembo. Thanks.


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[paddy6789]

Just a caution on the engine mounts: they are VERY good. But they do cause a lot of vibration in lower revs and some people complain about this.

But it’s the price you pay for wanting the best power transfer to the wheels, and the wheels to the tarmac.


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[Deleted member 103408]

Deano save up is my answer, @paddy6789 made a good point recently when he said that the tuning companies (Revo, Racingline and APR) build there maps using a specific set of hardware, you can use other hardware but you may not get the best out of it.

With regards to intercooler I was advised to use either forge or wagner (neither were cheap) when I was looking at Stage 2, there are lots of Intercoolers out there but be warned some need work to make them fit (extra fitting cost). I went Revo with the upgraded pipework and so far I have seen a good reduction in the oil temp on the car over stage 1 and again this setup is how revo tested there setup.

Brakes, these are the things that keep you alive don't penny pinch go for the best you can, I am very happy with the Revo brakes but have not yet taken it out on the track to see how they work under that sort of pressure.

So again, Save up and do it properly, Also you need to talk to your insurance company to make sure they are happy to cover these mods (some are not)

Last point re what @paddy6789 said, Revo will warn you when you order the engine mounts that they come pre loaded which means they are very hard to start with but after a thousand miles should have calmed down a bit. On my car the vibration is at tickover so far the low revs have not proved to be a big issue but its early days yet and fully agree lots of people complain about it.

 

[Deano j1971]

theoldboy....thanks once again,I will take all of this very useful on board.


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[AndrewJB]

Intercooler is not required for Stage 2 but is recommended, I've run with standard FMIC for just over 3 years on Stage 2 and had no issues at all, logged it several times and it was working ok, even on my 416bhp rolling road pull.

I did the testing for REVO in 2014 and the car ran lumpy with Stage 1 + downpipe.

 

[Deleted member 103408]

Andrew Revo's site now says Required FMIC Upgrade, maybe they need the cash.

 

[Deano j1971]

Hi AndrewJB....thanks for your input.... so you’ve been running stage2 with stock FMIC and stock brakes, and had no problems at all, was that revo,apr or a custom map your running.


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[Deleted member 103408]

Deano, If I remember correcty @AndrewJB had replaced the stock brakes but took them off when he sold the car (put the old ones back on)

If he does not come back I would suggest you ask your local Revo dealer about current thinking on FMIC, If I remember correctly Andrew started off Revo 1 then 2 (he also did some testing of the exhaust systems) and finaly switched over to APR Stage 2.

 

[Deano j1971]

theoldboy...yeah that’s what Im gonna do... there is a lot to think about than just getting a Downpipe fitted with all the extras on top of it all, cheers for your input.



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[Deleted member 103408]

Indeed and we are all different so please take your time, work out what you want from this build and remember you wont get your money back. You will have a lot of fun and many many smiles but in hard cash terms its not an investment.

Talk to your local dealer, I also spoke with Revo directly to double check what I was being told.

 

[Cupra Belfast]

Paddy6789, theoldboy,cupra Belfast. Thank you all for your input and information about this topic. I now understand why I will need a stage 2 along with the downpipe, the only problem now is which one I go for milltek,cobra,scorpion. I’m having the revo carbon series intake system installed next week, so I’m wondering if I should get my guy to do Downpipe+ stage 2 all in one go, should be pushing over 400 bhp+


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If it helps, I have the Revo carbon intake system, retained airbox with a Revo panel flter & silicone hoses, a Forge FMIC & turbo blanket (helps keep the IAT down, increases turbo thermal efficiency, improves spool up speeds. See youtube) and a Cobrasport 200 cell DP. All good stuff. I retrofitted the 370mm Brembos. I will be using Tarox pads when the time comes to change. I have the order number for the kit at home on the receipt. They're excellent, and cheap in comparison with others out there. I have been very glad of them on a few occasions. As per above advice. If you go Revo or APR, best off fitting their downpipe as their files are designed round it's parameters.

 

[AndrewJB]

Hi AndrewJB....thanks for your input.... so you’ve been running stage2 with stock FMIC and stock brakes, and had no problems at all, was that revo,apr or a custom map your running.


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I've been running the car Stage2 for over 3 years with standard FMIC, first on REVO then APR.

I had Ferrari brakes but took them off about 6 months ago.