Stage 2+ cupra with diff, stage 2 focus RS equivelant?

Poverty

Guest
Guy down my local meet has just got a new white Focus RS. Talked to him briefly about mods and a stage 2+ focus RS makes about 375bhp, around the same figure as a stage 2+ cupra.

So was wondering, if you then fitted a quaiffe diff, some fast road setup suspension, and some stiffer engine and gearbox mounts, a stage 2 cupra should be able to keep up with a stage 2 focus RS around the track?

Understandly the focus does have a diffuser, and a wider track over a standard ST but it could be done to mod a cupra to match a focus?

After seeing the RS also decided the K1 spoiler is too small. Watch this space :D
 

DOLBY

Active Member
Jun 24, 2006
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the RS has only got that power cos it is an ST with a big blower bolted on...a LCR could whack a huge turbo on and have the same results also.....i suppose the cupra is better platform to work on than the LCR tho ....

anyway to answer your question, the main thing is a good driver..without this the suspension etc means nothing...
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
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Guy down my local meet has just got a new white Focus RS. Talked to him briefly about mods and a stage 2+ focus RS makes about 375bhp, around the same figure as a stage 2+ cupra.

So was wondering, if you then fitted a quaiffe diff, some fast road setup suspension, and some stiffer engine and gearbox mounts, a stage 2 cupra should be able to keep up with a stage 2 focus RS around the track?

Understandly the focus does have a diffuser, and a wider track over a standard ST but it could be done to mod a cupra to match a focus?

After seeing the RS also decided the K1 spoiler is too small. Watch this space :D

short answer no.
see this months performance car magazine for your answer mate.
 

Poverty

Guest
short answer no.
see this months performance car magazine for your answer mate.

already read it mate, cupra seemed to be let down by lack off diff and rubbish coilover setup. Focus RS has better steering feel but jonnyc says uprated mounts helps this.
 

Al

Active Member
Aug 29, 2005
7,331
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To be honest, until I see proof of a UK Leon Cupra stage 2+ make 375bhp, I am going to assume 360-365bhp is the ceiling. However the 10-15bhp difference between a 360bhp Leon and a 375bhp Focus would be eliminated by the extra weight of the Focus.

Also, you could afford to spend loads on a Leon to make up the price required to get the Focus up to Stage 2+ or whatever the stage tuning is for them. Things like anti lift, weighted and properly set up suspension, LSD, anti roll bars etc etc would be affordable with the difference in value.

I am not sure why people are so obsessed with track/lap times considering most never put their car on a track, and those who do, are nowhere near good enough to make it go as fast as it can possibly go.

[/£0.02]
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
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I am not sure why people are so obsessed with track/lap times considering most never put their car on a track, and those who do, are nowhere near good enough to make it go as fast as it can possibly go.

[/£0.02]

Cause it makes good pub talk for people.:blink: my car is faster than yours ect.

tbh if i get my Cupra to 350+ bhp i would be very happy indeed , would i be gunning for RS focus? no not really , would put a smile on my face just knowing what my car could do :D
 

Blade

Full Member
Aug 31, 2004
1,378
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Teesside
Cause it makes good pub talk for people.:blink: my car is faster than yours ect.

tbh if i get my Cupra to 350+ bhp i would be very happy indeed , would i be gunning for RS focus? no not really , would put a smile on my face just knowing what my car could do :D

If you get up to 350bhp you will kill a standard RS. I did so last week and was a bit dissapointed with it really. A tuned one will be a different beast though.
 

warren_cox

Back from the dead
Point 1: The Diffuser: I'm not so sure how effective these are on cars like ours, and whether they are just a 'nice to have' trim panel to differentiate the sport models (until they dilute the concept down and it becomes standard issue). I had to have the S3 diffuser replaced at the last service as it had bowed. This implies air is getting in behind it, rather than making use of it to channel air out. I would guess that there needs to be some elaborate channeling in the underfloor to make good use of a diffuser. The Focus one is certainly more meaningful than say the S3 one. When I first saw the S3 one in the Audi dealership, and the salesman pointed it out as a selling point I just laughed and said, "that's sh1t". And it is!

Point 2: Leon vs. Focus: You should all know I love the Leon. I think it is exceptional value for money, and the quickest £ per bhp car you can buy for sensible money. However, whilst the chassis is a marked improvement on the LCR MK1 platform, it's a generation away from the Revoknuckle Focus. The Leon/Ed30/S3 platform was built for a budget, whereas the Ford platform was built to prove you can safely harness 300+ horses for a FWD car, and make it work/safe/grip. Even with coilies / ARB's etc, the higher the power stakes go (370bhp+), the Focus will stretch its advantage due to it's chassis capabilities, whereas the limitations of the Leon's chassis will just exaggerate further on anything technical.

I'm fascinated to try the new differential system when we test the Golf 6 GTi this weekend, but I'm not holding my breath as its just another electronic VAG invention.
 

Al

Active Member
Aug 29, 2005
7,331
9
Cause it makes good pub talk for people.:blink: my car is faster than yours ect.

tbh if i get my Cupra to 350+ bhp i would be very happy indeed , would i be gunning for RS focus? no not really , would put a smile on my face just knowing what my car could do :D

I guess, but really, if people want to stand at a bar and argue about one persons car being 0.1 seconds faster round a track than the next mans, both driven by the same professional driver, it really would be a whole lot easier just to get those concerned to drop their trousers and pants, plap their knobs on the bar and have the bar maid measure them.

As for 350+bhp, while it is great and dandy, good for pub talk and straight line speed, you open yourself up a whole new array of issues bud. All that glitters is not always gold. Things like extra wear on the clutch, more of a strain the drivetrain including gearbox, cv joints, drive shafts not to mention that the turbo working outside its designed capacity will potentially mean shortened life, peoples concerns about uprated mechanical fuel pumps increasing wear on the camshaft (although not many people have seen this problem yet), poor traction causing the wheels to hop and spin, shortening the life of the tyres and putting wear on engine mounts, yada yada yada.

Of course all of this ultimately is going to be down to how the car is driven, and if it is ragged round a track and thrashed stupid, then one would have to assume it would not last as long as one that is not, stage 2+ or not.
 

warren_cox

Back from the dead
All that glitters is not always gold. Things like extra wear on the clutch, more of a strain the drivetrain including gearbox, cv joints, drive shafts not to mention that the turbo working outside its designed capacity will potentially mean shortened life, peoples concerns about uprated mechanical fuel pumps increasing wear on the camshaft (although not many people have seen this problem yet), poor traction causing the wheels to hop and spin, shortening the life of the tyres and putting wear on engine mounts, yada yada yada.

I wouldn't want to own a 10 year old one. They will be knackered! When I think how often mine goes wrong now, I would never own one 5 years+ old!
 

Poverty

Guest
nice, has he modded it yet mate, would be good to see it in the flesh..

None yet that I know of. You should come down this thursday, he might be there again. I think he was taking picture of his car alongside the bumblebee LCR last time.

Your car running smoothly again?

BTW have you got VAGCOM?

My car has intermittenly gone into limp mode recently :(
 

vRSy

Fabia vRS
Jan 8, 2009
1,470
1
London
thread ressurection:wtf:

i read that artical, and i was mega impressed with that Leon.

Which got me to thinking all the car needed were a few subtle suspension additions.

first of all iirc it had toyo T1R wheels on, which from experience are not very good, when compared to the higher end market.

They said it suffered with power understeer, and the brakes were not up to the job, surely by adding WALK,and/or top mounts/tt lower arms for a bit of camber, a set of DS2500 brake pads all around, and i bet it would have beaten that RS aroun the track no issue.

take it a step further and pop a quaife LSD into the mix and i think it'd be fantastic.

That said id still take the RS every time. especially as it wont be long till there are modders improving on that chassis and engine, and then no cupra will be coming close to it, as warrencox said, that chassis is way ahead of the mk5 platform
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
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just to throw a spanner in the works , in EVO magazine this month , they put a standard RS new shape focus up against their Mountune remapped car , and the results were surprising to say the least.


Mountune claims 256 bhp @ 5500 rpm and 295lb/ft from 2500 to 4000 rpm

who do you think was was faster to 60?

who do you think was faster on 1/4 mile?

who do you think was faster 0-100?



nope you all wrong









was the ST on pretty much everything.


IMGP0521.jpg



was very surprised.
 

DaveysFR

Active Member
May 28, 2008
526
5
Northern Ireland: Limavady
robdf2,

I can well believe the straight line results mate, my friend recently got a new RS in White.

My Stage 1 mapped and EVOMS induction kitted Cupra pulls lengths out of him in a straight line :cartman:

I have never raced him round a track before though?

Maybe I will some day once I have made a few chassis improvements.
 

warren_cox

Back from the dead
too much measurement is based on straight line drag style performance these days. As we don't live on Route 66, when some of these cars with overpowered lumps present themselves at corners you can end up with quite a bit of understeer.

I bet on a twisty wet Welsh 'b' road the Focus RS would pull some distance on a Mountune ST.

I guess it depends on what you want from a car, but whilst I enjoy the odd 1/4 mile blat, I far prefer a 'B' road blast, and knowing I have some capable hardware underneath me to handle whatever power its punching.
 

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
3,605
2
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tbh i didnt post just about speed , it was more of a comparison on the engine engineering side of things , ST tuning has been around for a while now and i would imagine that there must be RS owners reading this and thinking "surely ford would have given us something better even remapped ST is quicker in a straight line"

well i would if it was me.

the RS has a totally different turbo to the ST so perhaps it might remap with big BHP figures.

i know B road jaunts do tell the whole story but just from the engine side alone i would be 1 very dissapointed RS owner.
 

warren_cox

Back from the dead
tbh i didnt post just about speed , it was more of a comparison on the engine engineering side of things , ST tuning has been around for a while now and i would imagine that there must be RS owners reading this and thinking "surely ford would have given us something better even remapped ST is quicker in a straight line"

well i would if it was me.

the RS has a totally different turbo to the ST so perhaps it might remap with big BHP figures.

i know B road jaunts do tell the whole story but just from the engine side alone i would be 1 very dissapointed RS owner.

I guess Ford balance out aspects of reliability, cost, and the point where they feel that any more power will ultimately disrupt the overall balance of the car. If they give it 20bhp more, whilst on the straight it is fine, you can't then tell the car not to use it in the corners. Also they probably have to come within defined parameters for emissions to ensure the 'Ford Group' portfolio as being seen to be green enough. The fact tuners exist almost gives the manufacturers the right to give you 95% of the total car knowing the enthusiast will go away and tinker!
 
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