Turbo problems - intermittent power loss (1.9 TDi SE 110)

[blizeH]

Hi,

I've only had my car a few days but I'm almost certain that the turbo is failing at times and it feels completely gutless. I'm not really a fast driver at all, but it's still very noticeable and makes the car feel even more feeble than my previous 306 D Turbo.

Sometimes it's fine, but suddenly you can just feel the power disappear (for a while I was convinced something was stopping the pedal from hitting the floor properly, wishful thinking eh?) and it's generally a bit of a nightmare.

I've also noticed that the first time you take the car out it does this, but the next time you turn it on it's generally fine, if that makes any sense. i.e. I just drove somewhere and it had no power, but driving back home it was perfect all the way back.

I mentioned it to my dad's friend who went some way to explaining what the problem was, and compared it to a propeller that gets stuck, but will start again the next time you power up the engine, and occasionally it'll correct itself through normal driving too - sounds like this could be the problem. He then went on to mention that, sadly, the only way to fix it would be to pay £700 for a new turbo.

So, ramblings aside, my car has intermittent power loss and I was just wondering if there's anything I can check before splashing out £700 on a new Turbo.

Any tips/advice/recommendations would be fantastic, thank you.

 

[Robb1990]

sounds like your going into limp mode, Basicly a fall back the ECU has to prevent doing any damage, this does however get re-set once you've turned the engine off then back on again. You wont need a new turbo thats for sure. You do however need to clean it up. You can take the turbo's off and clean them or some people just take off the downpipe/cat section from the turbo, then clean the insides, then that can usually suffice as well as making sure the wastegate is fully free'd off and working fine.

Ive got the same problem on mine currently and its a proper PITA. But over the last few tanks of diesel, ive run through some Millers diesel treatment and give it a good ragging, since, its been getting better slowly, ive also found that if you dont rev it over 3K-ish the car wont overboost and go into limp, but that may just be the condition mine is in.

You wont need a new turbo thats pretty much certain. If the unit had gone, you'd be getting all sorts of black/blue smoke as it'd be very rich running and probably burning oil. It would basically be un-driveable. Apparently they are bad even when losing/splitting a boost pipe, but thats not happened to me -touchwood-

If i was you, id start at the easiest thing to do, whip the engine cover off and lube the wastgate/actuator arm and move it backwards and forwards if possible just to see if thats sticking slightly. If it fixes it, but the problem re-occurs id say you'll need to clean it out.

 

[Robb1990]

sounds like your going into limp mode, Basicly a fall back the ECU has to prevent doing any damage, this does however get re-set once you've turned the engine off then back on again. You wont need a new turbo thats for sure. You do however need to clean it up. You can take the turbo's off and clean them or some people just take off the downpipe/cat section from the turbo, then clean the insides, then that can usually suffice as well as making sure the wastegate is fully free'd off and working fine.

Ive got the same problem on mine currently and its a proper PITA. But over the last few tanks of diesel, ive run through some Millers diesel treatment and give it a good ragging, since, its been getting better slowly, ive also found that if you dont rev it over 3K-ish the car wont overboost and go into limp, but that may just be the condition mine is in.

You wont need a new turbo thats pretty much certain. If the unit had gone, you'd be getting all sorts of black/blue smoke as it'd be very rich running and probably burning oil. It would basically be un-driveable. Apparently they are bad even when losing/splitting a boost pipe, but thats not happened to me -touchwood-

If i was you, id start at the easiest thing to do, whip the engine cover off and lube the wastgate/actuator arm and move it backwards and forwards if possible just to see if thats sticking slightly. If it fixes it, but the problem re-occurs id say you'll need to clean it out.

 

[blizeH]

Many thanks for the info Rob, very glad to hear that I shouldn't need a new turbo! There's no smoke at all and it generally runs like a dream, even in limp mode it's still really smooth (although completely naff, haha).

Thinking I may be better off giving your information to my dad's mate who's a mechanic though, just popped the bonnet and went to have a look at the parts you were talking about before realising that I had absolutely no idea what I was doing!

Is it worth trying some of that diesel treatment and hammering the car over a reasonably long (1hour or so) journey before doing that?

Cheers again

 

[WeeJase]

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/search.php?searchid=3578045
i wee bit of reading for you
http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/body_vnt15-turbo.html
the bit at the bottom of that link shows you how your turbo works,or in your case how it doesn't right now.

 

[blizeH]

That's great, thank you very much WeeJase

 

[seremotors]

this is such a common problem, SEAT put out a dealer bulletin to clean the turbo out as so many dealers were replacing turbos and claiming warranty. one other thing to check is a little pressure solenoid mounted up on the bulkhead which also senses boost. it looks like a screenwash pump and 2 sit side by side - one for turbo and one for egr system. these are cheap as chips at under £30, the part number is 1j0906627a (1jo906627 is the egr one) even worst case, good recon turbos can be found for around £350

 

[blizeH]

Just had a good read through some of the threads, and had a good look at the VNT15-Turbo detail page , but in all honesty it's a bit over my head. Think I might try what I said above, get some diesel cleaner stuff and hammer the car a little, if that doesn't work I'll put some cleaner (WD40!?) into the turbo, and if I'm still having problems, take it to a garage and ask for the turbo to be disassembled and cleaned that way?

Edit: Thanks for the information seremotors, is that censor thing the 'MAG' censor that a lot of people are talking about?

For what it's worth, the on board computer said the person who had the car before me was doing an average of 13mph(!) so I assume it was used a lot of very short journeys, not entirely sure but would that imply the problem is with a build-up of gunk on the turbo rather than a censor or anything more serious?

Cheers again

 

[Slickstick]

i had a similar problem with my LCR and it turned out to be a valve that wasn't opening properly. Whether it was the dump valve or not i'm not really sure as the dealer dealt with it. The problemwas that it wasn't opening properly it was telling the ecu that it was broke and was shutting off the turbo as a safe mode. Ask your dealer if you do take it in to check the dump valve. I had a new turbo put in and it still did the same until they changed the valve.

 

[WeeJase]

i had a similar problem with my LCR and it turned out to be a valve that wasn't opening properly. Whether it was the dump valve or not i'm not really sure as the dealer dealt with it. The problemwas that it wasn't opening properly it was telling the ecu that it was broke and was shutting off the turbo as a safe mode. Ask your dealer if you do take it in to check the dump valve. I had a new turbo put in and it still did the same until they changed the valve.

diesels don't have dump valves mate
his car is very very different to yours.

 

[blizeH]

Sorry to be a pain guys, but since I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, just a couple of points that might help narrow it down:

- The guy before me did a lot of short journeys at low speeds I think (the on-board computer implies this anyway)
- The turbo dies if I'm going up a hill at 2 and a half thousand revs or so
- The turbo dies if I go above 3 thousand revs or so when the engine isn't warm

Will check the wastgate/actuator arm as soon as I get home tonight though, I was hoping that hammering it a little bit may of fixed it, but sadly it hasn't.

 

[seremotors]

sure its not just the airflow meter???? those are the exact symptoms we usually see and its a very very common issue.

 

[sssstew]

when you say the "turbo dies" do you mean it goes into limp mode? or the revs just stop rising and it goes a bit flat?

 

[math-30]

hi mate i have got the exact same problem as you on my leon fr 150. my car is in the garrage at the mo. i will be ringing them in the next hour or so to see what is wrong with it i will let you know as soon as i hear from them mine is a warrenty job so aint costin me. but so far it has had a new airflow sensor and made no difference and has had a new boos sensor valve or something and has made no difference. will get back to you when i hear something

 

[math-30]

just spoke to the garage now. apparently there is 4 sensours that monitor the preasure in the turbo so they are gona replace all 4 to see if that cures it. and if not then they r gona check the turbo. will keep you up to date

 

[blizeH]

sure its not just the airflow meter???? those are the exact symptoms we usually see and its a very very common issue.

Apologies for my ignorance once again (I really am clueless unfortunately) but where could I find/check that?

when you say the "turbo dies" do you mean it goes into limp mode? or the revs just stop rising and it goes a bit flat?

Almost certain that it fits the 'limp mode' thing - it feels like there's nothing there until I restart the engine. My mate asked me just to put my foot down on the motorway as a test the other day, I was doing 75mph on a flat road and it felt like it was pretty much maxed out, there was nothing else there!

just spoke to the garage now. apparently there is 4 sensours that monitor the preasure in the turbo so they are gona replace all 4 to see if that cures it. and if not then they r gona check the turbo. will keep you up to date

That's great, thank you very much for keeping me updated - is it the MAF sensors do you know? Hope they sort the problem for you

 

[math-30]

the MAF sensor is the airflow senser mate just the 2 names for it

 

[blizeH]

D'oh! That'd make sense, cheers for the heads up - mass air flow sensor

 

[sssstew]

if it goes into limp then it wont be the MAF, they very very rarely create a limp mode situation, they tend to die slowly and gradually decrease performance, making revving over 3k hard and flat.

If its going into limp then it will likely be because of a boost issue, either too high or too low, as the vanes cant adjust in time as they are sticking. The turbo will really need a strip and clean to solve this one. I doubt replacing sensors will fix it.

It would be interesting to see what VAG COM would see for any reported faults, also vag com can diagnose boost and maf issues.

 

[blizeH]

That's great, thank you very much for the info. It's definitely not the MAF then from your description; it goes really well (I'm sure Cupra owners will laugh at that, but compared to what I'm used to it's not too bad at all!).

Do you think it's worth me trying to clean the CAT (catalytic converter? sorry) myself or should I take it to a garage and get the entire turbo stripped and cleaned?

Many thanks once again, I feel bad asking such silly questions all the time, and I really appreciate your input. Cheers.