what happens when you miss a gear?!

[hon_n_gem]

Ok, happend to me today....it doenst happen often (once-twice a year) but it sounds horrrendus and cant be good for the old gear box.

Basically when you lift the clutch too quickly or dont depress it enough and you get nasty (gear box is gonna break) sounds...what is actully happening and how bad is it?!

 

[ettlz]

Ok, happend to me today....it doenst happen often (once-twice a year) but it sounds horrrendus and cant be good for the old gear box.

Basically when you lift the clutch too quickly or dont depress it enough and you get nasty (gear box is gonna break) sounds...what is actully happening and how bad is it?!

I believe it's the teeth on the sliding "dog collars" that engage the gear to the shaft grating. You'll also put undue strain on the brass synchroniser mechanism that matches the gear to the shaft before engaging if the clutch is left up slightly. (Read up the Wikipedia article on syncromesh.) Doing this extremely rarely will not in general kill the box, but it is a mistake and routine crunching will eventually make the box fail or difficult to engage. So shift properly!

 

[Nath.]

You will get little metal fragments from grunching the gear teeth, these will normally be collected by a special magnet inside the box

 

[ettlz]

http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible.html

 

[bobmcgod]

Luckily the gear boxes in these little SEATs (well my 1.2 anyway) are really tough and will stand up to alot of this. I know as i'm really ****.

 

[Nath.]

^^^^^

 

[Red Rum]

Before luke got rid of his FR 20VT he couldn't use second gear when giving it some because of grinding. Did it every time and Seat refused to recognise it.

 

[stezo2k]

First few months of having mine i did crunch the gears about 5-6 times as i wasnt used to a smaller gear box, couldnt be good for the car. The gears are slightly harder to change but ive gotten out of the habbit
________
HOMEADE VAPORIZER

 

[ettlz]

Before luke got rid of his FR 20VT he couldn't use second gear when giving it some because of grinding. Did it every time and Seat refused to recognise it.

What, did it pop out of gear under high torque or couldn't the synchronisers cope with the difference in shaft speeds?

 

[FR3000]

A once in a while crunch of the box usually wont do any damage - repeatedly doing it will put undue loads on the Dog Teeth and the synchromesh as commented on in this thread.

I guess the best bet is make sure you do the leg work and get the clutch fully disengaged between shifts. Problem with the some of the Seat boxes is the hydraulic clutch, it's a little slow!

 

[ettlz]

Problem with the some of the Seat boxes is the hydraulic clutch, it's a little slow!

Is this fitted in the 1.2? I've been wondering why it feels so different compared to the Polo, much lighter and with a longer action. I certainly find it harder to do blipped downshifts/double declutching smoothly in the Ibiza, get better results doing sustained rev-matching.

 

[FR3000]

As far as I know the 1.2 has a good old cable linkage, a friend of mine has a 2004 one but I don't know if it's been changed since then. My old 1.4 polo 8v had a cable too and I always found it a little better than my current 20v FR's which is hydraulic. Like you I found it easy to double de clutch is the polo than I do with the Ibiza.

It's light enough with a linear action but it's short of feel, so you don't realy know how much travel is just enough to free the clutch during changes which slows the shifts a little - it takes a bit of getting used to, had to re-learn what to feel for with heel and toe changes in particular.

 

[Crafoo]

Before luke got rid of his FR 20VT he couldn't use second gear when giving it some because of grinding. Did it every time and Seat refused to recognise it.

Got exactly the same problem with mine, give it any kind of revs in first, shift to second and it will grind to high heaven, same deal if I change down too. Took it to Seat and as you said they don't recognise there is a problem, all I got was a "well it doesn't do it when we drive it" basically saying it's down to my driving, which would explain why it's only ever second gear and it doesn't happen in any other car I've driven

 

[kriso]

As far as I know the 1.2 has a good old cable linkage, a friend of mine has a 2004 one but I don't know if it's been changed since then. My old 1.4 polo 8v had a cable too and I always found it a little better than my current 20v FR's which is hydraulic. Like you I found it easy to double de clutch is the polo than I do with the Ibiza.

It's light enough with a linear action but it's short of feel, so you don't realy know how much travel is just enough to free the clutch during changes which slows the shifts a little - it takes a bit of getting used to, had to re-learn what to feel for with heel and toe changes in particular.

How can you do heel and toe changes in the Ibiza? It cuts the throttle when you apply the brakes so you can't blip the accelerator while braking.

 

[ettlz]

How can you do heel and toe changes in the Ibiza? It cuts the throttle when you apply the brakes so you can't blip the accelerator while braking.

I think you have to brake VERY HARD for the throttle cut-out. I know mine doesn't (e.g., brake test/drying after going through water: 2nd gear, throttle to keep it going, apply brakes with left foot). I'm guessing FR3000 has an "organ" type or raised accelerator pedal (on mine, it's set too far back to do heel-and-toe without being double-jointed; I tried having a go once and... well, I couldn't twist my leg enough, it was a mess from a style point of view ).

 

[kriso]

I think you have to brake VERY HARD for the throttle cut-out. I know mine doesn't (e.g., brake test/drying after going through water: 2nd gear, throttle to keep it going, apply brakes with left foot). I'm guessing FR3000 has an "organ" type or raised accelerator pedal (on mine, it's set too far back to do heel-and-toe without being double-jointed; I tried having a go once and... well, I couldn't twist my leg enough, it was a mess from a style point of view ).

Not on my Cupra I can be doing 70 and just touch the brake pedal at the same time, and it starts braking quite heavily. I don't think the Cupra brakes are quite good enough to overcome the engine, but maybe it's just that

 

[m0rk]

just engaging the brake switch for 3 seconds will cause the throttle to cut.

 

[dave99]

on a possibly related note - is there any harm done in changing gear without the clutch (assuming you dont grind the gears at the same time!)? I know on my tdi it is very easy to change up gears (certainly once you get into 2nd) by getting your timing right, but never really sure if it caused a problem

 

[skahigh]

on a possibly related note - is there any harm done in changing gear without the clutch (assuming you dont grind the gears at the same time!)? I know on my tdi it is very easy to change up gears (certainly once you get into 2nd) by getting your timing right, but never really sure if it caused a problem

It probably wouldn't be great for the gearbox because its almost impossible to match the shaft speeds perfectly.

Also, that site linked earlier in this thread is awesome, I spent ages reading that much to my missus annoyance.

 

[kriso]

It's probably fine if you get it right every time, but not so good for the box if you don't. I'm too scared to try it myself lol