Wishbone angle when lowered

[kineticz]

Just curious whether other owners who've lowered their cars, have noticed the wishbones are at a ~45 degree angle? Is this the sign of lowering too much lol?

 

[Willie]

Yup, you can cure this and still have the same drop if you change you front ARB, shocks hubs, wish bones and ball joints.

This is getting more popular on here.
Phillc and DPJ have just done this.
Phillc got an advisory from his MOT and was close to not passing for this same issue

 

[kineticz]

How will changing those things make the angle more level mate? All those parts are relatively new on my car! I only changed them about 2,000 miles ago (ARB was changed about 500 miles ago) Are you saying this angle is caused by bent parts?

I didn't think it would be possible to have a level wishbone when lowering so much (~ 60mm). Surely the lowering kit pulls the wishbone up?

 

[Willie]

The Ball joint mounting point on the LCR/TT/S3 hubs is lower down so mellowing out the wishbone angle.

sounds like it would be a sore one for you to change out all these new bits, should have asked us before you did this

Maybe a different route would be better like raising ride height

 

[kineticz]

Ahhh so you mean I'd need to change them all for LCR/TT/S3 suspension parts I thought you meant normal LC stuff.

What are the implications for having the wishbones at such an angle? Why do MOT testers advise against it? Would ride comfort and handling be much improved with the lower ball joint mount?

If I raise the ride height will I notice better ride quality? I have been considering doing it so I can get on garage ramps lol but I don't want it too high. Might take it back up to 40mm.

Thanks

 

[DPJ]

What are the implications for having the wishbones at such an angle? Why do MOT testers advise against it? Would ride comfort and handling be much improved with the lower ball joint mount?

It's about what happens to the geometry when the car corners and weight transfer.

 

[DPJ]

To quote **** Shine

There are two critical geometric points to consider when discussing suspension performance: the center of gravity, and the roll center. The distance between these two points (the roll moment arm) determines the tendency of the car to roll.

The center of gravity moves with the ride height of the car. Lowering the car one inch will drop the center of gravity approximately eight tenths of an inch (only the sprung portion of the weight moves downward). The location of the roll center is a function of the suspension geometry. Lowering the body one inch on a Mk4 VW lowers the roll center approximately one and a half inches.

As a result of lowering the car 1 inch, the roll moment arm has increased more than half an inch, making it much easier for the car to roll.

When a car is allowed to roll, the resulting weight transfer decreases the available grip and keeps the car from handling to its potential.

As I understand it, the downward sloping wishbones you'll get with a lowered LC will give a much lowered roll centre.

 

[Willie]

For those that don't recognize the name **** Shine he's the man when it comes to setting up the suspension on the MK4 Golf GTI.
He posts alot on VW Vortex, if you haven't been on this site....what you playting at.....get your ass on there and get searching, and know his stuff.
when setting up for the best handling on a MK4 Golf GTI, same set up as the LC, he actually raises the ride height of the front of the car, lowers the rear and fits a 28mm rear ARB. It doesn't look pretty but handles very well on the track.

 

[kineticz]

Best option for me at the moment then is to raise the front


That's an interesting and quite understandable read.

 

[Willie]

I'm good to you

 

[kineticz]

So to get the best performance on the mk4 those are the measurements?

 

[Willie]

These measurements are as you can see called the dune buggy set up.
this is supposed to be the best handling set up as per **** shines recommendations on VW Vortex.
Lots of guys running this set up, who are purely looking for handling over looks, are very happy.

If you have coilover sand a 28mm rear arb it should be easy to do to see how it feels

 

[kineticz]

I have coilovers but not yet the rear ARB, I suppose as that's a major benefit on the mk4 chassis I will be missing out


I'm gonna raise the front as close to that as possible without looking stupid

 

[Willie]

I have coilovers but not yet the rear ARB, I suppose as that's a major benefit on the mk4 chassis I will be missing out


I'm gonna raise the front as close to that as possible without looking stupid

you have to choose with your set up, either looks or good handling.
If you don't want to choose then change to a LCR set up

 

[greesha]

What's needed to change to LCR setup? Could someone please write from A to Z what would i need to buy to change my front suspension to LCR alike. Thanks

Thats very interesting photo Willie.

 

[Willie]

^^^^^
read the start of this thread bud, its all there
As for a how to, read Phillc's or DPJ's Readers Rides threads

 

[kineticz]

you have to choose with your set up, either looks or good handling.
If you don't want to choose then change to a LCR set up

I'm going to try to combine the two, I certainly don't like the idea of the front lifted up so much compared to the back, but I will raise my front alot more than it is now.

 

[JONOD]

so is it bad to lower my LC 30mm

 

[kineticz]

Nah 30mm is fine tbh mate that's not much at all