Strut mounts or struts?

[everson38]

Hey Guys I have a seat ibiza 2009 SE

I know that on my drivers side the strut mount has gone or at least the coil spring as, because when you feel underneath the metal disc part that the coil spring is attached to, spins freely and when you turn the wheel it clunks. but i noticed on bother sides that my dust boots have been torn to shreds.

I understand the one damaged side, but the othhr side? is this a common problem but your strut can still be fine, or should i be looking to change my struts because this problem of ripped boots has happened?

I have attached pictures of boots + also a picture of plastic capthat i also need advice on removing to get to the strut mount from the top of the engine.


Also can anyone shed any light on prices for. strut change / strut mount change / coil spring changes.


Really need some help here guys. links to picture below

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82985166@N03/35548194361/in/album-72157685785869125/ (Right strut boot)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82985166@N03/35639154136/in/album-72157685785869125/ - (left strut boot)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82985166@N03/35291541470/in/album-72157685785869125/
(Retaining clip)

 

[RUM4MO]

I am replacing a broken front spring on the late 2009 Ibiza right now, it had suffered a broken RHS spring, just about the last 1/2 or 1/3 of the bottom coil, so apart from that being an MOT failure, the car could still be driven with no apparent issues.

From my experience of working on first a 2002 VW Polo back in winter of 2007, and now on this late 2009 Ibiza, these strut and/or springs are easy enough to replace at home - but only if you have the right tools - that was initially a problem for me when working on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, now I have collected all the tools I need to make this job "easy"!

So, the dust/stone gaitors on that car are still intact, ie like new, something very bad is wrong with that car and it could be that both front springs have broken - but in a worse way that the one on the late 2009 Ibiza - please note, the front spring that broke and prompted that repair on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, broke at half height and stopped that car from being able to reverse up our driveway - ie it had dropped so far down!

Okay, if you are up for doing this job yourself, I'd suggest that you buy a Haynes repair manual for 6R VW Polo as the Ibiza might not be out yet - same car - it is Haynes 5638 VW Polo Oct 2009 to Jul 2014 - I bought mine direct from Haynes as it was cheaper that way at that time.

That top retainer plate, the item that you can see under the black top water deflector, they should not be able to rotate nor do they need to rotate, the top bearing locates under/against the top big black rubber do-nut mounting and everything below that is free to rotate. There is a top stiff nut that gets tightened down to that top retainer plate and that should lock against the lower nut which retains the plate on top of the spring and the top bearing.

Spare parts, I bought new springs from ECP during a sale period, then this weekend bought a couple of new struts because there is a lot of talk about these older struts starting to leak shortly after replacing springs, so I did not want to do that job twice!! There is/was an unbeatable(?) sale on at ECP, always order online to get max discount if buying from ECP. Also, if you buy the Haynes repair manual, you will see which bolts and nuts you need to buy from VW Group parts places and that will include a drive shaft nut for the the driver's side, I played safe and two everything for both sides.

Finally, I'd think that if you do not have or do not want to buy:- 36mm deep socket(drive shaft nut size), a 14mm spline bit(strut to hub carrier clamping bolt head), a "drive through" socket set (Draper Vortex?) that includes a 21mm socket and 75mm extension, hex bits that include 7mm and 6mm (to hold old and new Sachs damper piston rods from rotating) and a special tool to open the split in the hub carrier - then get this work done elsewhere, unless you want to improve your collection of tools and gain more experience! Of course you will need spring compressors and a few other general tools and torque wrench(s).

 

[everson38]

I am replacing a broken front spring on the late 2009 Ibiza right now, it had suffered a broken RHS spring, just about the last 1/2 or 1/3 of the bottom coil, so apart from that being an MOT failure, the car could still be driven with no apparent issues.

From my experience of working on first a 2002 VW Polo back in winter of 2007, and now on this late 2009 Ibiza, these strut and/or springs are easy enough to replace at home - but only if you have the right tools - that was initially a problem for me when working on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, now I have collected all the tools I need to make this job "easy"!

So, the dust/stone gaitors on that car are still intact, ie like new, something very bad is wrong with that car and it could be that both front springs have broken - but in a worse way that the one on the late 2009 Ibiza - please note, the front spring that broke and prompted that repair on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, broke at half height and stopped that car from being able to reverse up our driveway - ie it had dropped so far down!

Okay, if you are up for doing this job yourself, I'd suggest that you buy a Haynes repair manual for 6R VW Polo as the Ibiza might not be out yet - same car - it is Haynes 5638 VW Polo Oct 2009 to Jul 2014 - I bought mine direct from Haynes as it was cheaper that way at that time.

That top retainer plate, the item that you can see under the black top water deflector, they should not be able to rotate nor do they need to rotate, the top bearing locates under/against the top big black rubber do-nut mounting and everything below that is free to rotate. There is a top stiff nut that gets tightened down to that top retainer plate and that should lock against the lower nut which retains the plate on top of the spring and the top bearing.

Spare parts, I bought new springs from ECP during a sale period, then this weekend bought a couple of new struts because there is a lot of talk about these older struts starting to leak shortly after replacing springs, so I did not want to do that job twice!! There is/was an unbeatable(?) sale on at ECP, always order online to get max discount if buying from ECP. Also, if you buy the Haynes repair manual, you will see which bolts and nuts you need to buy from VW Group parts places and that will include a drive shaft nut for the the driver's side, I played safe and two everything for both sides.

Finally, I'd think that if you do not have or do not want to buy:- 36mm deep socket(drive shaft nut size), a 14mm spline bit(strut to hub carrier clamping bolt head), a "drive through" socket set (Draper Vortex?) that includes a 21mm socket and 75mm extension, hex bits that include 7mm and 6mm (to hold old and new Sachs damper piston rods from rotating) and a special tool to open the split in the hub carrier - then get this work done elsewhere, unless you want to improve your collection of tools and gain more experience! Of course you will need spring compressors and a few other general tools and torque wrench(s).

hey rum thanks for getting back to me.

I thinkni will take this too the dealers, as it isnt my car and dont want to mess anything up. both the dust boots on my car are torn, was you saying that something more serious is wrong? I can tell that the driver has a broken and strut mount, as when i turn the wheel i ca see the spring moving past the metal plat it is meant to be attached to, causing a loud 'Clung' noise. i have looked at other one and it appears to be fine and intact. dealership is charging £240 for the one side and thats already step for me, so if other side dont need doing, i really cant just spend the money. i am literally jackking up car now and taking tyres off to give it another inspect and

will let you know anymore with the problem.

Also off topic, i have done another post about CV Axle oily residue... i would love nif you could cast your eye to that post and give me any thoughts as seat are planning to fix this too (well ive been quoted for it nbut not officially booked anything in) (put the link 2 it below

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4731162#post4731162

 

[RUM4MO]

I have replied to your other thread, back to this one, I can't think of any good reason why a dust cover would end up getting damaged like that unless that other spring has broken, the top mount in these cars is just a big rubber do-nut so unless the top of that spring has broken and started to trash that top mounting, I would not think that it needs replacing.

 

[everson38]

I have replied to your other thread, back to this one, I can't think of any good reason why a dust cover would end up getting damaged like that unless that other spring has broken, the top mount in these cars is just a big rubber do-nut so unless the top of that spring has broken and started to trash that top mounting, I would not think that it needs replacing.

hey rum, you were right, i inspected the spring and it has a slight sharp skin hanging off the coil spring outer coating, which i guess was acting like a little blade cutting up the boot. So now spoke with mom (its her car) and she is going to change springs on both and then leave the oil residue on the cv axle and just clean it up and access as we go on.

with regards to doing the work i understand it step by step on paper, but the spring compressors , ive heard horror stories and not feeling 100 percent to tackle that.

but i appreciate all the help once again and my mother does.

 

[everson38]

I am replacing a broken front spring on the late 2009 Ibiza right now, it had suffered a broken RHS spring, just about the last 1/2 or 1/3 of the bottom coil, so apart from that being an MOT failure, the car could still be driven with no apparent issues.

From my experience of working on first a 2002 VW Polo back in winter of 2007, and now on this late 2009 Ibiza, these strut and/or springs are easy enough to replace at home - but only if you have the right tools - that was initially a problem for me when working on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, now I have collected all the tools I need to make this job "easy"!

So, the dust/stone gaitors on that car are still intact, ie like new, something very bad is wrong with that car and it could be that both front springs have broken - but in a worse way that the one on the late 2009 Ibiza - please note, the front spring that broke and prompted that repair on the 2002 Polo back in 2007, broke at half height and stopped that car from being able to reverse up our driveway - ie it had dropped so far down!

Okay, if you are up for doing this job yourself, I'd suggest that you buy a Haynes repair manual for 6R VW Polo as the Ibiza might not be out yet - same car - it is Haynes 5638 VW Polo Oct 2009 to Jul 2014 - I bought mine direct from Haynes as it was cheaper that way at that time.

That top retainer plate, the item that you can see under the black top water deflector, they should not be able to rotate nor do they need to rotate, the top bearing locates under/against the top big black rubber do-nut mounting and everything below that is free to rotate. There is a top stiff nut that gets tightened down to that top retainer plate and that should lock against the lower nut which retains the plate on top of the spring and the top bearing.

Spare parts, I bought new springs from ECP during a sale period, then this weekend bought a couple of new struts because there is a lot of talk about these older struts starting to leak shortly after replacing springs, so I did not want to do that job twice!! There is/was an unbeatable(?) sale on at ECP, always order online to get max discount if buying from ECP. Also, if you buy the Haynes repair manual, you will see which bolts and nuts you need to buy from VW Group parts places and that will include a drive shaft nut for the the driver's side, I played safe and two everything for both sides.

Finally, I'd think that if you do not have or do not want to buy:- 36mm deep socket(drive shaft nut size), a 14mm spline bit(strut to hub carrier clamping bolt head), a "drive through" socket set (Draper Vortex?) that includes a 21mm socket and 75mm extension, hex bits that include 7mm and 6mm (to hold old and new Sachs damper piston rods from rotating) and a special tool to open the split in the hub carrier - then get this work done elsewhere, unless you want to improve your collection of tools and gain more experience! Of course you will need spring compressors and a few other general tools and torque wrench(s).

I will definately be looking intop buying that haynes manual to get some tips from it and make me better with cars

 

[RUM4MO]

On the subject of spring compressors, yes messing up with these springs could hurt very badly, I have two sets of 2 and one set of 3 that I've needed to buy over the years to keep these tapered springs kind of safe, I still show these springs lots of respect though!

 

[everson38]

On the subject of spring compressors, yes messing up with these springs could hurt very badly, I have two sets of 2 and one set of 3 that I've needed to buy over the years to keep these tapered springs kind of safe, I still show these springs lots of respect though!

Hey Rum. Need some advice from you. As i said, i am looking at seat to replacing my Drivers side: 1) Coil spring 2) Dust boot 3)Strut mount. I have been quoted £241.12 for this job.

Long story short i think they are trying to back track and charge me more and so i am full armed with my knowledge, can you tell me if:

A) When replacing a coil spring, do you need to also replace the strut mount at the top of the engine? - As i am having the same work carried out on the passenger side minus needing a new strut mount, but they say i need one.

B) Is the coil spring and and strut mount one unit? or can they be taken apart .. i,e you could have the spring in one hand and the strut mount in the other?

thanks again

 

[RUM4MO]

First, the top rubber mounting and the spring are two completely different parts, taking all these parts in order of when they are assembled:- at the bottom is the hub carrier, onto that is mounted the strut complete with spring and top mounting etc.

Now, taking the bare strut and building it up:- at the bottom is the bare strut/damper, fitted on to that is a bump stop and then the dust cover, then the compressed coil spring gets dropped down onto the strut, followed by the top spring plate, followed by the top bearing, then the top mounting and then the threaded bush (lower retaining nut) gets screwed down - that is now a fully assembled coil spring and strut including a top rubber mounting. That assembly is offered up under the car and secured using the top retainer plate and a self locking nut - how/when the lower end of the strut etc is fitted into the hub carrier depends on which side is being worked on.

So, it might just be that main dealer workshops always replace the top rubber mounting when replacing a spring or/and a strut - they will know which approach stops that car coming back to them in a few days time needing FOC rework.

Trouble is, we can never normally challenge the main dealers, if we don't like it we will get advised to go elsewhere I'd expect! Certainly I'm replacing all these parts simply because I don't want to go near this area of that car again, plus there are quite a lot of nuts and maybe bolts that are "use once only" that need changing if tackling that job.

 

[everson38]

First, the top rubber mounting and the spring are two completely different parts, taking all these parts in order of when they are assembled:- at the bottom is the hub carrier, onto that is mounted the strut complete with spring and top mounting etc.

Now, taking the bare strut and building it up:- at the bottom is the bare strut/damper, fitted on to that is a bump stop and then the dust cover, then the compressed coil spring gets dropped down onto the strut, followed by the top spring plate, followed by the top bearing, then the top mounting and then the threaded bush (lower retaining nut) gets screwed down - that is now a fully assembled coil spring and strut including a top rubber mounting. That assembly is offered up under the car and secured using the top retainer plate and a self locking nut - how/when the lower end of the strut etc is fitted into the hub carrier depends on which side is being worked on.

So, it might just be that main dealer workshops always replace the top rubber mounting when replacing a spring or/and a strut - they will know which approach stops that car coming back to them in a few days time needing FOC rework.

Trouble is, we can never normally challenge the main dealers, if we don't like it we will get advised to go elsewhere I'd expect! Certainly I'm replacing all these parts simply because I don't want to go near this area of that car again, plus there are quite a lot of nuts and maybe bolts that are "use once only" that need changing if tackling that job.

Hey rum,

Thanks for this, it is as i frst thought but was checking i wasnt being told the wrong things. i hear you with challenging the dealerships, such a nightmare, if you lived by me, i would rather give you my money to do the work then the dealerships as i just feel uneasy on them, as i always feel when i call they try make me have something i dont need etc, becuase i never let on that i know abit about cars to try find an honest good nosed dealer. my experiences arent great with them.

But once again i cant say it more! appreciate it and you are DA BOMB!! LOL