Diff service

[RUM4MO]

Yes, WRT the bolts and seals kits, I'd aim for only buying genuine VW Group parts or Borg Warner genuine parts, for me, if all genuine parts are being provided, Progressive Parts kit seem an okay price, then buying a couple of plugs from a VW Group dealership parts place as buying a couple of plugs at discount then paying for postage is probably not quite as cheap as heading directly to my localist VW Group dealership parts dep.

I'll make up a list of parts and get a price - and quote them on here, once I've looked at this area of the Leon Cupra while servicing its brakes, replacing rear pads and changing the brake fluid - maybe sometime this week!

 

[RUM4MO]

Well despite what I initially planned, I ended up not bothering to find out the dealership parts prices for the drain/fill plugs with seals, the pump fitting seals and bolts and the diff fluid, and just ended up buying each of these 3 items from different sources, so far both the drain/fill plugs with seals and pump fitting seals and bolts, have arrived and are both genuine VW Group parts, the diff fluid, again being sold as genuine VW Group, should arrive soon! So my total cost of all genuine VW Group bits to make up a service kit for the eDiff ended up coming to £65.88, as I said, I have no idea what it would have cost if bought direct from a VW Group dealership parts department.

Anyway, now I've got hold of my daughter's Leon Cupra, and serviced its brakes including replacing the rear brake pads and changed the brake fluid - again I have used a vacuum bleeder and while it takes longer to do than my Gunsons pressure bleeder kits, it avoids having to prepare/protect the car from accidental leakages of pressurised brake fluid, and results in less tidying up of "bits" afterwards.

So, after completing these jobs, I removed the engine undertray to examine the access to the eDiff pump and Fill and Drain plugs - I quickly came to the conclusion that carrying out a service on the eDiff is really a job for when the car is up on a lift - and I only have a set of 4 highish wooden ramps, and a set of 4 Jackpoint jack stands - and they don't really, in my world, give enough access to refill the eDiff fluid tank - so for me, it is game over, and I'll hand that job over to a local proper VW Group Indie and hopefully they will accept my supplied kit of parts.

Other comments wrt SEAT Leon Cupra, why did VW Group need to use large fixing screws for the rear of the engine under tray, and why does the "push in" front points need snap in elements as well as the usual screws - good old Arnold Clark seems to have used their "better judgement" over exactly how many side fixing screws are needed, one side has 3, so they left out the 4th one on the other side, just something else for me to buy then!

 

[SuperV8]

Other comments wrt SEAT Leon Cupra, why did VW Group need to use large fixing screws for the rear of the engine under tray, and why does the "push in" front points need snap in elements as well as the usual screws - good old Arnold Clark seems to have used their "better judgement" over exactly how many side fixing screws are needed, one side has 3, so they left out the 4th one on the other side, just something else for me to buy then!

Undertray's take quite a beating - standing water/curbs/animals etc.. can all play havoc with the plastic undertray.
I see many cars with large screws/bolts/washers securing the back edge of the undertrays - i'm sure there would be a valid engineering reason to spend more on fixings in this area - maybe during testing this back edge is subject to more impact/damage.
I would think they replaced all the screws they took out - so would imagine 1x has fallen out at some point!

I see many cars on the motorways with undertrays 'flapping in the wind!' anecdotally seem to be quite a few Mondeo's!

 

[RUM4MO]

Undertray's take quite a beating - standing water/curbs/animals etc.. can all play havoc with the plastic undertray.
I see many cars with large screws/bolts/washers securing the back edge of the undertrays - i'm sure there would be a valid engineering reason to spend more on fixings in this area - maybe during testing this back edge is subject to more impact/damage.
I would think they replaced all the screws they took out - so would imagine 1x has fallen out at some point!

I see many cars on the motorways with undertrays 'flapping in the wind!' anecdotally seem to be quite a few Mondeo's!

The location for the missing screw has witness marks at it so I think that my conclusion is correct, all the other screws were fitted in tightly. The motor group I mentioned do have a rather well earned bad name - but unfortunately they are the local SEAT dealership and that car was bought with a 3 year service package, sold as being a SEAT product, but in the event it turned out to be that motor group's product! An easy error to make when buying a new car, I allowed the same thing to happen to my wife when she bought her new Polo from another motor group. It was serviced back in September.

The large rear fixing screws also have blue locking paste on them, making me think that I had missed some feature and that normal access could be gained to the engine are by releasing only the small screws - obviously that was wrong as the front needs engaging in before fitting any screws.

I've only been with VW Group since 2000 and in that time worked on 7 of their cars, the only damage was to my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion's under cover, it ended up getting cracked from what looked like an attempt to get one side into the correct position AFTER fitting the screws on the other side, by bending it, at 8 years old (it was in for a timing belt change), that plastic had aged enough to crack when bent that much, I've been in that annoying position where I've ignored one side after refitting and fitting some screws, but I was smart enough to take the "time and effort" hit and remove all fitted screws and fit that undercover correctly before starting to fit screws.

I do agree about the incidence of initially hanging down car under covers, people should be more aware that if they use their eyes when approaching their car, or even just the car they use, then 9 times out of 10 it will be obvious that things do that look right - then with time the horrible scrapping noises should alert them that sometime soon, some unfortunate fellow motorist, following behind them is going to end up with something large heading in their direction!

Edited, "hanging" not "handing"!

 

[RUM4MO]

My attempt to buy the correct VW Group branded Haldex fluid has failed, the item, bought on ebay, never ever made it out of the carriers central hub, so the money has been sent back into my account!
Now, initially I thought that this was a bit annoying as this seller was selling this fluid for under half price, but, I may have dodged a stray bullet, as when viewing the item being sold again via ebay, for twice the price the first Haldex fluid would have, I have noticed, in small print, a comment printed on the rear of the containers which says that this fluid, when kept in a sealed container, can be used for up to 3 years beyond its date of manufacture!

I don't know what this date was on the first container that I tried and failed to buy and receive, but another seller, selling for a "good" price, does include a picture of the rear of the container and its manufacture date is shown as being during 2018 - so well beyond the "use by" date as printed on its labelling!

Just maybe a word of warning for anyone wanting to save a "bob or two". I'm not sure what "use by" limitations either Febi or BorgWarner issue about their offerings.

 

[perryqhill]

Finally got under mine today as it was due oil and filter (and cabin). Normally I've done it on axle stands but I bought some small ramps last year (they didn't come in time for last year's oil service).

Bloody hell I can barely get under them, so there's pretty much no chance I can do this myself without lending a ramp of some sort.

Think I'll probably just speak to my local independent and tell them I've got the oil (maybe also buy the rest of the plugs etc) maybe get them to do a brake fluid change at the same time as its due for that and saves me buying a pump of some kind.

 

[RUM4MO]

While I said that I was going to hand this to a local proper VW Group Indie, due to the first fluid not turning up, and when pressed, the ebay trader said that he would chase it up as it appeared lost/stuck in "Inpost's" sorting hub, another prompt/question a week later after no deliver or movement, my money was returned to my account - very annoying! So, I resigned myself to just buying from a local VW Group dealership - then someone else appeared selling them at almost twice the price of the first one, I asked what the manufacture date on the bottle was, and as it was 06/22 I bought it - but he sent that via Royal Mail - and it has not moved for 5 days and counting!! Before buying that, I noticed someone on ebay was selling out of date fluid, the pictures clearly showed that it was manufactured during 2018! So, I informed him that on that picture, further down, VW Group made it clear that this fluid should be kept in a sealed container and used within 3 years of its manufacture date - he said that that was not representative of what he was selling, but thanked me, then a couple of days later that picture was removed from that listing!
Anyway, I have yet to measure the distance between the ground and where my Jackpoint jackstands contact that car - and use that to work out just how much I can add to the height of my 4 wooden ramps to maximise the lift - the limiting thing being this initial clearance as the rear ramps need to fit under there prior to driving up onto them. Once I've taken that measurement I can work out how much extra clearance I'll gain over having that car up on the jackstands - only after I've done that and had the car up on these spaced up jackstands, will I now make my final decision on if I can change this fluid or give in and hand it over to a garage. My interest in this mainly, is to see for myself just how much debris has collected on the pump screen and in the fluid. I have a Laser Tools 200mm fluid handpump, and have bought in from a hydraulic fluid company, 2 meters of the same semi rigid tubing that came supplied with that pump, so I will be able to cut this new tubing to the correct length to let me do this job - if I can gain enough height.

 

[RUM4MO]

Anyway, since my last posting to this thread, I did buy and receive a container of the correct VW Group Haldex fluid, so then I had a complete kit of parts, namely 2 drain/fill plugs, Haldex fluid, Haldex seals and bolts kit and a Laser Tools "fill dispenser" so you load the container of fluid into the dispenser bottle, screw it to the dispenser pump, pull the plunger back - to fill the pump chamber, push the long flexible hose over the crossmember and into the open fill port.

Note covering what became of the first bottle of Haldex fluid I ordered - Then, the missing container of fluid started to move slowly around the country, and by just after Christmas, it was heading up North, but very slowly, then the seller contacted me to say I would receive it within 4 days! Actually it stalled again for 15 days before arriving on my doorstep, I felt bad for the seller, but if they had made it sound like they were not interested to getting this to me as quickly as expected, so then I had 2 containers of Haldex fluid!

So, today, days before using her 2019 SEAT Leon Cupra for a family trip down to London and Canterbury from Edinburgh, my daughter finally let me service her car!
I replaced the oil and filter, failed to replace the pollen filter, subject of another new thread, and finally manned up and finally replaced the fluid in the front diff Haldex, I was running out of time so I did not remove and clean the pump, I'm saving that job for next Summer and changing the fluid again as I have that spare container of fluid and it will run out of service life in a year or so. The old fluid was clear of "bits" and only slightly darker than the fresh, well within date new VW Group Haldex fluid, so maybe she and her partner don't give the Cupra a hard time. I did not run any "stuff" on VCDS as I didn't want to cause the pump any grief if there is some trapped "bits" partially blocking its screen.
So now to buy another 2 fill/drain plugs, this time I'll ask the local Skoda dealer's parts guy for a price as that place is easy for me to get to when we are on grandson watching duty!

Edited to move the update covering when or why the first bottle of Haldex fluid away, slightly, from the main body of this posting!!

 

[dan.cupra]

Very confusing topic, especially for vehicles built on MQB-evo platform which seems to have quite a lot of differences compared to MQB platforms, including the Can bus wiring, 7-speed dual clutch gearbox etc.

I wonder if anyone knows what type of oil is needed for Haldex Gen 5, again, found two different codes and not sure which one is the right one:
G065175A2 or G060175A2 or what are the differences between these two (except the 10 euro)

 

[RUM4MO]

Parts bought to service the VAQ front Haldex differential coupling: -

Fill and Drain plugs WHT 007 168

VW Group Haldex fluid for Gen 5 systems 0.87litre G 060 175 A2

If you want to include removing the pump and cleaning it you need to buy pump seals and bolts kit 0CQ 598 305, this is a BorgWarner part number, but VW Group just stick with that part number in their parts system.

There are other sources for this Haldex fluid including BorgWarner (who own the Haldex name) and Febi.

 

[dan.cupra]

Parts bought to service the VAQ front Haldex differential coupling: -

Fill and Drain plugs WHT 007 168

VW Group Haldex fluid for Gen 5 systems 0.87litre G 060 175 A2

If you want to include removing the pump and cleaning it you need to buy pump seals and bolts kit 0CQ 598 305, this is a BorgWarner part number, but VW Group just stick with that part number in their parts system.

There are other sources for this Haldex fluid including BorgWarner (who own the Haldex name) and Febi.

Many thanks !

Yes, I will clean the pump since it's one of the most important part....no dealer does that as far as I know I have the required parts, just that the oil was the confusing part.

 

[dan.cupra]

Parts bought to service the VAQ front Haldex differential coupling: -

Fill and Drain plugs WHT 007 168

VW Group Haldex fluid for Gen 5 systems 0.87litre G 060 175 A2

If you want to include removing the pump and cleaning it you need to buy pump seals and bolts kit 0CQ 598 305, this is a BorgWarner part number, but VW Group just stick with that part number in their parts system.

There are other sources for this Haldex fluid including BorgWarner (who own the Haldex name) and Febi.

Hey @RUM4MO. Do you know if both drain and fill plugs are exactly the same size ? The code you gave me WHT 007 168 shows only one screen, but in some photos with Haldex gen5 looks like there are two different screws (at least the head of the screw is different).

L.E: Nevermind. Got my answer from the 1st page.

 

[RUM4MO]

Hey @RUM4MO. Do you know if both drain and fill plugs are exactly the same size ? The code you gave me WHT 007 168 shows only one screen, but in some photos with Haldex gen5 looks like there are two different screws (at least the head of the screw is different).

L.E: Nevermind. Got my answer from the 1st page.

Yes, and Okay!

Edit:- it seems crazy to throw away these aluminium alloy large Fill and Drain plugs when all you need is a new suitable material O-ring seal, but that is what is advised, though in this case, it is aluminium alloy plugs screwing into an aluminium casing, so maybe best not to reuse these plugs and just replace the O-ring seal.

I'd be interested in finding out the VW Group parts department prices for these Fill and Drain plugs, as well as the pump gasket and bolts bit, too often "we" feel the need to buy spares online when buying from your local VW Group is probably cheaper! So, if you do buy these parts from your local VW Group dealer's parts department, any of the 4 marques will charge the same price, please let us know the price.

 

[dan.cupra]

Yes, and Okay!

Edit:- it seems crazy to throw away these aluminium alloy large Fill and Drain plugs when all you need is a new suitable material O-ring seal, but that is what is advised, though in this case, it is aluminium alloy plugs screwing into an aluminium casing, so maybe best not to reuse these plugs and just replace the O-ring seal.

I'd be interested in finding out the VW Group parts department prices for these Fill and Drain plugs, as well as the pump gasket and bolts bit, too often "we" feel the need to buy spares online when buying from your local VW Group is probably cheaper! So, if you do buy these parts from your local VW Group dealer's parts department, any of the 4 marques will charge the same price, please let us know the price.

Hey. I agree, I actually bought the screws from two different stores, one is linked in my previous comment (link again here) which according to them they are original VW screws at 9.49 euro and the 2nd is from another online shop for only 1,85euro but it's made of steel not aluminium...I just want to compare both screws.

 

[RUM4MO]

It does make you wonder why BorgWarner specified these plugs as being alloy and not just steel.

From an engineering point of view, screwing an alloy bolt/plug into an alloy casing can be risky as the material of both are quite "soft" and both the casing thread and the plugs thread look to be "cut" instead of formed by rolling - so the contact surfaces will not be very smooth and so "pick up" between the two could happen. In the case of the Cupra that I replaced the fluid in, both the old plugs and the new plugs screwed out and in easily - but of course there would be lots of fluid to lubricate the threads,so maybe that set up is okay.

 

[dan.cupra]

It does make you wonder why BorgWarner specified these plugs as being alloy and not just steel.

From an engineering point of view, screwing an alloy bolt/plug into an alloy casing can be risky as the material of both are quite "soft" and both the casing thread and the plugs thread look to be "cut" instead of formed by rolling - so the contact surfaces will not be very smooth and so "pick up" between the two could happen. In the case of the Cupra that I replaced the fluid in, both the old plugs and the new plugs screwed out and in easily - but of course there would be lots of fluid to lubricate the threads,so maybe that set up is okay.

What are the actual risks of reusing the old plugs ?

 

[RUM4MO]

The “rubber” O-ring might not seal as well as a new one would, I’d doubt if there is much of a build up of excess pressure when the fluid heats up.
I’d always just go with the advice and replace them, I’ve still to find out what VW Group charge for them.

 

[jonny_w]

Phoned today to book mine in for a service and the diff oil change. Service is free with plan and the diff is £99 to get done, wouldn’t pay me to do it myself.

 

[dan.cupra]

Phoned today to book mine in for a service and the diff oil change. Service is free with plan and the diff is £99 to get done, wouldn’t pay me to do it myself.

Because they don’t clean the pump. Ask them if they do it !

 

[jonny_w]

Because they don’t clean the pump. Ask them if they do it !

I’ll give them a bell and ask them this week.