Diff service

[perryqhill]

Hi all. I've read a bit about diff services in the past and although I've had the DSG service done in my 66 plate since I got it I don't believe the diff service has been done. Looking at kits on eBay like this

Could someone tell me if this is the right kit for a 66 plate Cupra 290 or if not point me in the right direction for the various bits.

 

[RUM4MO]

A very good plan, I've looked into this in case I end up doing that work on my daughter's May 2019 Leon Cupra, I did work out which version of kit that I would need to buy, but I'd rather not guess which kit is suitable for your 2016 Leon Cupra.

Edit:- was there not a link to a company that sells kits using VW Group friction fluid as well as all other necessary parts, if you go to their website they will guide you into buying the correct kit - I am, if I do that work, planning on using them to source a kit.

Another Edit:- seller I was referring to is Progressive Parts, www.progressiveparts.com

 

[mykro]

dont forget to clean pump and get rid off black mess ... (eg. with brake cleaner without acetone).. Gen 5. doesnt have filter like older gen.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Are the differential and the haldex unit the same thing?

My understanding is

The differential tightens up the connection between the front wheels to avoid one wheel spinning whilst the other stays still
Haldex activates the rear wheels in a 4wd system when the fronts lose traction

So i dont think that ebay kit is for your diff, its for your 4wd clutch. Unless i am wrong about the above

 

[RUM4MO]

The differential fluid needs to be "friction fluid", I never bothered to chase through what Febi recommend that fluid is used for.

Edit:- mind you so will be the Haldex fluid, but the quantities will be different also maybe the composition of the e-diff fluid is different and normally the e-diff service kit includes pump fixing bolts, which makes it sound like VW Group advise that they get replaced maybe true to they are being stretched to yield.

 

[perryqhill]

Are the differential and the haldex unit the same thing?

My understanding is

The differential tightens up the connection between the front wheels to avoid one wheel spinning whilst the other stays still
Haldex activates the rear wheels in a 4wd system when the fronts lose traction

So i dont think that ebay kit is for your diff, its for your 4wd clutch. Unless i am wrong about the above

I'm not entirely sure, but from what Ive read it's distributes torque accross the front axle in a Haldex style electronically controlled clutch system. I've also seen the job carried out (on various you tube videos) on the back of Golf R's, the odd PP Gti and one fwd Cupra and it looked very similar.

Seat Leon Cupra 400 in for VAQ Diff and DSG service. The VAQ diff is usually neglected but works in the same way as the Haldex rear diff on quattro and 4 motion vehicles.

Lifted that from a site which I've now lost the link to.

Hence I don't know that much about it and the Haldex kit was my starting point.

 

[black_sheep]

Gearbox - Haldex System - Blog Post that may be of interest

Copied from https://www.awesomegti.com/blog/haldex-servicing/?fbclid=IwAR30co49F4pf4vwZE3E9nxP6IKORYIMtsaQN9tkVxFPzGP9il350JtSK9I8 Haldex Servicing - Why and When? Posted by Al Brown @ Awesome on 14th Feb 2019 If you have a small VAG...

www.seatcupra.net

Use the workshop manual title maintenance for how to service:

https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/threads/leon-mk3-official-seat-workshop-manuals-link.442353/

Haldex/Front Differential Home Service Kits - Genuine Parts & Optional Pump – Progressive Parts

Hands on or lacking time to get to the workshop? Our home servicing kits are ideal for keeping your MQB platform performance vehicles running smoothly.

progressiveparts.com

Plenty of Golf Mk7 PP videos online for how to do this.

 

[mykro]

yes diff and haldex oil are two different things and has separate drain and fill plugs ... if you push haldex oil into diff, it will damage (seek on the internet)

 

[RUM4MO]

yes diff and haldex oil are two different things and has separate drain and fill plugs ... if you push haldex oil into diff, it will damage (seek on the internet)

Well completely correct when talking about normal differentials, but not so true when talking about these e-Diffs which use a sandwich of friction plates being clamped by high pressure oil supply to stop slip or allow slip.

 

[SuperV8]

This might be interesting:

Guide to Front VAQ E Diff Lock LSD on Golf GTi, Autobahn, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia – Vorderachsquersperre – Haldex Parts and ECU Repairs by Auto Fault Finder Ltd

www.haldexrepairs.co.uk

The fwd LSD 'Diff' is an electronically controlled locking differential using essentially the Haldex gen 5 internals/multi-plate clutch.
As mentioned, uses the same fluid as the rear Haldex - but different plugs. Get a kit specific for fwd - of just buy the bits separate.

Gasket set (19) is exactly the same part number for this front diff and the rear Haldex unit - 0CQ598305
Oil is G 060175A2
Sealing Plug (M18x1.5) x2 WHT007168 - All you really need is the O-ring on this but it's not available separately!

 

[mykro]

i am confused what discussants trying to know but good guide is here

Gearbox - Haldex System - Blog Post that may be of interest

Copied from https://www.awesomegti.com/blog/haldex-servicing/?fbclid=IwAR30co49F4pf4vwZE3E9nxP6IKORYIMtsaQN9tkVxFPzGP9il350JtSK9I8 Haldex Servicing - Why and When? Posted by Al Brown @ Awesome on 14th Feb 2019 If you have a small VAG...

www.seatcupra.net

I have 4x4 x-perience 2015 and I have: front differential (front final drive) -> cardan coupling -> haldex 5.gen -> rear differential (rear final drive)..
Differentials have lubricating oil, not mentioned in service maintenance guide because their should span lifetime of car - but i recommend to change it.
Haldex has a friction oil, some special.

Cupra models (only fwd) have VAQ/LSD/Front axle differential lock - limited slip differential at the front similiar to Haldex 5.gen

 

[RUM4MO]

There is a comment in the "haldexrepairs.co.uk" link provided by @SuperV8 about if you intend to do a proper job, then removing the sump lets you clean out the accumulated junk that remains below the drain level, but no clues about doing this, I'm raising this point as in the VW Group parts listing, there are only a few listed spare parts, and they do not include any sump sealer or gasket material and so no torque levels - but from the picture of a stripped down eDiff, you can see that the (maybe) side of that sump area opened up, has 6 fixing holes - unless the Haldex ECU is also the cover for that area, for me, maybe time will tell if I get to do a service of the Haldex eDiff.

Edit:- not the Haldex ECU that covers that area, it gets fixed on with 8 screws/bolts, it looks like, from a picture of the complete assembly, that that complete "fluid tank" is fixed to the Haldex unit by 6 screws/bolts. Also what is shown on the picture of the "opened" sump, is in fact the removed sump placed next to the Haldex unit that it has been removed from, my error. So, the only probably source of that info, ie sealant or gasket, will be from a Haldex repairer and not VW Group.

 

[perryqhill]

Update - the kit you've linked to is for a 4X4 model as the fill/drain bolts are the same as our Skoda 4X4.
Isn't a 66 plate Cupra 290 a FWD?

Hence why I've said I've used the kit as my starting point.

 

[ej_290]

I had my diff oil changed a couple weeks back at the garage, I have a 2016 cupra, they said it was a pain to do and had to make up a line to be able to reach it, they used front diff lock oil, direct from vag.

 

[RUM4MO]

I'll get a look at what the access is like when I'm servicing the brakes and replacing the brake fluid. I do have a smallish pump with a flexible tube and a spare 100ml syringe that can accept a length of flexible piping. I am planning in being sort of a smart ass and pass the old fluid through a maybe coffee filter, reload it into the diff fluid sump, stuff a small flexible pipe in the fill point and blast compressed air in to stir up the friction plate debris that has dropped out into the base of the sump and then drop the old fluid back out again, maybe do that two or three times in a bid to get rid of more of the debris, before loading in the new fluid. Well that is my plan/aim, if I end up doing that remains to be seen. Remember the drain point in the eDiff sump while being on the base, has been found by experts, to be quite a bit higher than the inside "floor" of the sump - so a lot of debris gets left in the sump.

 

[SuperV8]

I'll get a look at what the access is like when I'm servicing the brakes and replacing the brake fluid. I do have a smallish pump with a flexible tube and a spare 100ml syringe that can accept a length of flexible piping. I am planning in being sort of a smart ass and pass the old fluid through a maybe coffee filter, reload it into the diff fluid sump, stuff a small flexible pipe in the fill point and blast compressed air in to stir up the friction plate debris that has dropped out into the base of the sump and then drop the old fluid back out again, maybe do that two or three times in a bid to get rid of more of the debris, before loading in the new fluid. Well that is my plan/aim, if I end up doing that remains to be seen. Remember the drain point in the eDiff sump while being on the base, has been found by experts, to be quite a bit higher than the inside "floor" of the sump - so a lot of debris gets left in the sump.

This was interesting reading:
It's based on a rear unit but still the gen5 plates & pump as your front eLSD.

How to Service Haldex Generation 5 Full Guide – VW, Audi Specialists Leeds

www.jcr-leeds.com

 

[RUM4MO]

Thanks @SuperV8 for that, I'll add that to my folder on "how to service the front eDiff", I think/hope, from the previous link that you posted previously, that the access to bits on the simpler eDiff is easier. That rear AWD coupling certainly looked like it needed the pump filter basket cleared - and the area behind it!

If Royal Mail gets the rear brake pads kits to me, 9 days and counting, then my daughter finds time to give me the car, so this could end up not being until we get another PM!

 

[perryqhill]

I checked with the supplier and the oil and the seals in my opening post are correct. Obviously though the bolts/plugs aren't.

I decided to source bits individually and so far I've got the oil and a 500ml pump which I may or may not have to adapt (if the pipe isnt ling enough). Cost so far around £29.35 ish.

I've found the seals with the stretch bolts for around £22.

Before I go any further though I'm just wondering what OBD apps I can use. I've got a Elm27 from years ago that clears faults etc with a programme called Torque Pro that I paid for years ago. That doesn't seem to have VAG specific things on it though. I done a bit of research on here and some have car scanner pro and Carista which I think I had a trial of when I had my 184FR.

Anyone know if paid versions of those two apps can measure the temps I need to check for the doff service and perform the diff learn function, or am I going to end up spending on a standalone device which I really don't want to do.

 

[RUM4MO]

Carista will not be of any use here, I have that - just for checking for faults and clearing service warnings on "other" cars as I have a 10 VIN VCDS package, and it is that I'll be using if/when I do this job on my daughter's 2019 Leon Cupra.

@perryqhill, the prices you quote, is the oil just Febi branded or Borg Warner or VW Group, I suspect it is the Febi branded one, also the seals and bolts kits, it looks like VW Group sell this as two different items, but I've noticed many online suppliers sell this - or at least infer that they sell this as a complete kit, ie seals and bolts.
I have yet to approach, probably for convenience, a Skoda dealership, so a price for the fluid + drain plugs + seals + bolts, that is probably the reason why I'm asking about if the seals kit includes bolts as I'd rather avoid ordering everything in from that Skoda dealership and find that I had a spare set of pump bolts!

BTW, I do appreciate that VW Group do that manufacture any of these - well especially the fluid or the seals, and at times I'd rather avoid paying the VW Group premium for getting the same parts in VW Group branded packaging, but this car is not mine, so I'm, in this case, playing safe and buying VW Group branded parts.

Edit:- to be honest I kind of hoped that I would have been able to complete my initial job on my daughter's Leon Cupra (brakes) as it is now winter - quite frosty overnight where I live, and thoughts of getting under a car even in a garage, does not make me feel happy!

 

[perryqhill]

Yes it is Febi branded stuff.

With regards the bolts then
0CQ598305 the number earlier in the thread for the seal kit pulls up various bolt and seal kits accross the Internet, not all of which I would trust (many claim to be genuine) as some foreign eBay ones clearly aren't the same head on the bolts. However they also appear on seatdirectparts.co.uk as a kit bolts and seals. One of the links above I've also checked and it brings up similar results for the bolt part numbers.

I've held off ordering a kit as above I'm working out what obd application to use, but also in about 6 weeks it's around the time I'll be doing a oil service again so if I order all at once it may save postage somewhere.