1.5 tsi, any progress?

[Mr Pig]

What about using the money to recon you engine and bearings etc… I only say because I had to fit a replacement lower engine from an Audio last year it’s like new car.. my car is on 125000 on the clock but I’m keeping as long as possible as I agree with all your comments. Whats out there to replace with ?

I'm looking at the Audi TT. Pick would be the 2L 230 but finding the ideal car seems tricky. Audi were very stingy with the standard kit, you'd be amazed by how many of these cars do not have cruise control!

I don't see the point in sinking money into my Leon. Cars get to a point where they start costing you money and it doesn't balance out. Any money you put into an older car is gone, you don't get it back. No one is paying more for a car with a replacement engine or new clutch. The trick is to get rid of cars before they get to that point.

 

[RUM4MO]

Some of these modern VW Group engines, it seems, can't be rebuilt, checking through the parts cat for your engine will confirm if it can be rebuilt.

 

[SuperV8]

@SuperV8

So did a 71 mile round trip of mostly motorway on this sunny Saturday.
Managed to squeeze just over 40mpg - Cant say im impressed considering the type of journey...

Start of trip:

Coolant temp	Oil Temp	Actual Coolant temp at radiator	Specified Coolant Temp at radiator
13c	13.5c	13.8c`	105c

End of trip:

Coolant temp	Oil Temp	Actual Coolant temp at radiator	Specified Coolant Temp at radiator
101c	96.5c	41.7c	102.7c

Logs from this journey:

Log #934498

log.tunezilla.com

Radiator temp peaked at 51c
View attachment 47772


Fan operation vs coolant temp

I found it strange that your coolant temp keeps dropping down below 90 - maybe down to 86-87.

But then checking SSP555 about the 1.5evo and using google translate; it says this:

View document [SSP 555 Двигатели 1,5 л 96110 кВт TSI семейства EA211 EVO]

vd Veer engineering car electronics. Haldex, DSG, CAN controller and other CANBUS devices.

www.haldexcontroller.com

"Phase 04 Coolant temperature regulation to 85–105 °C
After the engine has warmed up, the coolant temperature regulation begins, depending on the operating mode.
This regulation is carried out exclusively via rotary flap 1. Rotary flap 2 is fully open and remains in this position. The coolant temperature is maintained at 105 °C at low load and speed, and is reduced to 85 °C at high load and speed.
Regulation is carried out steplessly according to programmed parameters"

So this is probably working as designed - though we don't know what they class as 'high speed'? - would have been interesting to add your speed/load on to this graph - to see if these coolant temp dips correlate to your increased speed/load?


Your coolant gets upto temp in around 6 minutes and oil in about 17 minutes - seems 'reasonable' to me but be nice if someone else with a 1.5 could comment if this seems reasonable?

I don't understand why your actual and specified temp at radiator are so different?

The fan can also come on with AC demand - so not sure this is anything to be concerned about - unless it was coming on at 70mph?

 

[SuperV8]

Some of these modern VW Group engines, it seems, can't be rebuilt, checking through the parts cat for your engine will confirm if it can be rebuilt.

By rebuilt - do you mean cylinder over boreing? If yes that has been the case for many manufactures for years using spray on cylinder wall coatings.

I'm sure you can buy the required engine parts block/crank/pistons/head etc- but whether it makes financial sense is another mater.
Cam's for my TDI for example are available - but ONLY as a complete cam module - which includes all cams in a housing and would be very expansive.

 

[RUM4MO]

I was referring to the bottom end, assembled initially while the block is braced in a jig, loosen off bearing caps at your peril.

 

[SuperV8]

I was referring to the bottom end, assembled initially while the block is braced in a jig, loosen off bearing caps at your peril.

Just checked and I need to revise my comments - you can't buy crank or block for the petrol engines! Only pistons and rods.
You can't buy the TDI blocks either - but you can buy the TDI cranks and bearings!

 

[Harv2007]

Will track it later today.
When you say engine temp do you mean coolant temperatures or another sensor readings should be looking at

From memory when driving when I’ve last looked at coolant temps using obd I’ve seen it in the 90s go up to 110.

Just the radiator outlet temp always looks way out of wack in comparison and maybe why I’ve not heard the fans in a long time.

Funnily enough I had a mechanic out in January one of those mobile ones to see if they could shed any light on why fuels so poor.

It was a snowy day so outside temp was 2c. He plugged his diagnostic tool in and started the engine and within less than minute, coolant temps was showing at around 29c.

Which he said was suspicious and thought based on that one of the sensors could be giving false readings.

View attachment 47514

Would you agree with that being odd? I’d imagine the coolant temp would’ve been same as outside temp initially?

Have you fixed this issue, i also have very poor fuel economy in mine. Coolant seems to be up to temp just after a few minutes of driving and claims to be 90 degrees. I believe this may be a coolant temperature sensor issue or map sensor on the way out. I also have no cold start.

 

[Tester01]

Have you fixed this issue, i also have very poor fuel economy in mine. Coolant seems to be up to temp just after a few minutes of driving and claims to be 90 degrees. I believe this may be a coolant temperature sensor issue or map sensor on the way out. I also have no cold start.

unfortunately not mate

I’m at the point of seriously just getting rid of it.

can’t figure out why fuel is so bad. I have no fault codes or anything.

I’m over it, gonna give it one more stab but it’s becoming more of an annoyance.

Sick of being told averaging 25-30mpg even in summer on a long run is normal

Just don’t know what else I can do or check at this point?

 

[DEAN0]

unfortunately not mate

I’m at the point of seriously just getting rid of it.

can’t figure out why fuel is so bad. I have no fault codes or anything.

I’m over it, gonna give it one more stab but it’s becoming more of an annoyance.

Sick of being told averaging 25-30mpg even in summer on a long run is normal

Just don’t know what else I can do or check at this point?

Completely agree.
No way should a 1.5TSi be so bad on fuel when I easily get 30+ mpg from a 2.0 300hp cupra ( up to around 42mpg on long motorway trips )

Has the car had an MOT during your ownership ? - do you know what the emission figures were like ?

 

[Mr Pig]

Completely agree.
No way should a 1.5TSi be so bad on fuel when I easily get 30+ mpg from a 2.0 300hp cupra ( up to around 42mpg on long motorway trips )

Has the car had an MOT during your ownership ? - do you know what the emission figures were like ?

I can't understand how anyone who knows anything about these cars can say that such low mpg is normal. You need to find a garage that knows what they're doing. Which rules out most dealers!

 

[Tester01]

Completely agree.
No way should a 1.5TSi be so bad on fuel when I easily get 30+ mpg from a 2.0 300hp cupra ( up to around 42mpg on long motorway trips )

Has the car had an MOT during your ownership ? - do you know what the emission figures were like ?

This is it and so frustrating.

I’ve been chasing this issue for over 3 years now.

Yeah it’s passed every MOT during my ownership.

Not sure on emission figures

Presumably I’ll have to ask at the next Mot? Not sure if it’s recorded anywhere online?

It’s due in May - At this rate I don’t even want to have the car by then…Reluctantly been holding out hoping I’d get to the bottom of it.

Like you said Cupras getting 30+ easily

Even Tiguans with same engine 1.5 I’ve seen on forums and Facebook groups averaging better…Even though it’s a much heavier car.

Sounds silly to be so hung up on MPG but it’s frustrating knowing that there’s something wrong for sure.

Yes driving style has an impact but at this point I’m confident it’s not my driving style being the reason I consistently have bad fuel economy.

Every time I’ve been to Lookers Seat when I’ve asked them to have a look or when it’s when serviced. At this point I’d pay anyone to drive it and see the best they get from it.

Considered writing a complaint to Seat but I’m not sure it’ll be come to anything..

I complained to Lookers October last year and got a snotty email back from manager. Basically along the lines of pay us £700 and we’ll take a further look…But I have 0 faith in them doing it properly judging by them telling me what I’m experiencing is “normal” over and over.
And don’t fancy being £700 down the drain for nothing to be found.

 

[Tester01]

I can't understand how anyone who knows anything about these cars can say that such low mpg is normal. You need to find a garage that knows what they're doing. Which rules out most dealers!

Been to 2 specialists over last 2 years but they’ve just done what Seat have done and scanned it for fault codes…Which is what I’ve been doing regularly at home so waste of time and money.

Spoke to another today waiting for a call back this week, they initially offered the same. But I’ve said I’ve done 100x and so have others and there’s no codes.

See what they would charge for a few hours time to look over the engine and the fuel system.

My annoyance/issue is now I’m throwing all this money to try find the issue but will it result in anything?

I took out the extended warranty recently for another year…In hopes something would come up and I can get it fixed without footing a big bill.

I was under the all in one service plan previously but due to my car being over 6 years old I couldn’t renew it.

Believe warranty covers the same things minus the service plan.

Just a bit stuck at a cross road here as to what to do or where to go.
Ideally I’d like to keep it and not shell out for another car.
Honestly wish I picked up on this fuel thing when I first got it and returned it. I saw it wasn’t great on fuel but I put it down to purely me having a new car and being over enthusiastic with my driving.

My latest purchase now is the official VW additive

Genuine VWG Fuel Additive For Petrol Engines

Genuine Volkswagen Group Fuel Additive. Ideal for cleansing the fuel system in your recent Audi model. Highlighted in multiple TSBs to assist in addressing fuel-related misfires and eliminating carbon deposits in port-injected vehicles. 90ml bottle.

www.awtuning.co.uk

Mentioned on a few VW bulletins for misfiring believe.
Add that to the long list of fuel system cleaners I’ve tried in this car. I’ve probably bought and used every brand at this point.

Wanted to get Redline Si-1 which I’ve used in the past but sold out everywhere as far as UK sites

But yes if anyone has any suggestions please feel free to throw them at me.
Not a mechanic but feel like I’m learning and I have a OBD11 reader handy.

 

[Tester01]

Probably spend every evening at this point crawling across VAG forums hoping someone has the same issue and has fixed it

So update as of this evening spoke to a mobile mechanic going to drop my car off for a few hours later on in the week. Said he will check the intake for any leaks, coils, sparks etc.
Could be money down the drain but guess will see what he comes back with.

 

[Harv2007]

Probably spend every evening at this point crawling across VAG forums hoping someone has the same issue and has fixed it

So update as of this evening spoke to a mobile mechanic going to drop my car off for a few hours later on in the week. Said he will check the intake for any leaks, coils, sparks etc.
Could be money down the drain but guess will see what he comes back with.

Try getting walnut blasted, these engines are direct injection so get a lot of carbon build up around the valves as no fuel is cleaning them and this will increase fuel consumption. Spoke to the master tech at work about this and I walnut blasted mine and replaced well the coolant temperature sensor. It seems to have fixed everything including low mpg. I hope this helps

 

[James_R]

The walnut blasting treatment tends to be more a resolution for rough running and soft misfires. Not sure how much of an impact it has on fuel economy? The condition of the back of the valves can be easily checked with a borescope to save the necessity of a strip down.

 

[Harv2007]

The walnut blasting treatment tends to be more a resolution for rough running and soft misfires. Not sure how much of an impact it has on fuel economy? The condition of the back of the valves can be easily checked with a borescope to save the necessity of a strip down.

Of course it does, it improves air flow into the combustion chamber creating cleaner combustion therefore improving engine efficiency. Mines only on 40k miles and was in a poor condition. I averaged 30mpg ish before and on the way home I averaged 45mpg with exactly the same driving style. It has worked for me

 

[James_R]

Of course it does, it improves air flow into the combustion chamber creating cleaner combustion therefore improving engine efficiency. Mines only on 40k miles and was in a poor condition. I averaged 30mpg ish before and on the way home I averaged 45mpg with exactly the same driving style. It has worked for me

I can't say that I've ever had similar dramatic results or seen much of an improvement whenever I've walnut blasted an engine, maybe on the older TFSI belt driven engines that the process was designed for, but the newer stuff will function absolutely fine even with a thick coating of carbon build up on the back of the valves.

Your temp sensor could well have been the reason for the sharp rise in economy, but then again, it might settle once the readiness cycle has reset. I've not had to replace a temp sensor for a long time.

 

[Mr Pig]

Yes driving style has an impact but at this point I’m confident it’s not my driving style being the reason I consistently have bad fuel economy.

Have you check the mpg of other cars that you've had in the past? I've been doing it systematically for decades and keeping records. I can tell you the actual mpg of every tank since I got my car except one. I ask because it's totally possible to get terrible mpg solely as a result of poor driving. My wife is not a fast or aggressive driver but she gets consistently worse mpg than I do. Short trips and poor driving can kill the car never mind the economy. My mother in law has a Mazda 2 that failed its MOT catastrophically a couple of months ago. Mostly does short trips. One of the fails was emissions. I drove the car to my house and let it idle for an hour then went for a run. Different car! Pulled so much better and was smoother. Passed the emissions test no problem.

My 1.4 tsi is close to 100k miles, has never been walnut blasted and still drives fine averaging around 45mpg. I keep waiting for signs it needs cleaned but as yet it's behaving itself. These days I'm exclusively using premium fuel. I've heard it said that premium helps keep the intake cleaner but I can't see how as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinders so goes nowhere near the intake.

What I'm saying is that you totally can end up with issues from driving style and fuel choice. I never use supermarket fuel unless I have no choice.

 

[Tester01]

Of course it does, it improves air flow into the combustion chamber creating cleaner combustion therefore improving engine efficiency. Mines only on 40k miles and was in a poor condition. I averaged 30mpg ish before and on the way home I averaged 45mpg with exactly the same driving style. It has worked for me

Interesting I did enquire got quoted £450 recently

But I guess I’d like to see the state of the intake valves before committing to it. Especially if it didn’t actually need one

 

[SuperV8]

Interesting I did enquire got quoted £450 recently

But I guess I’d like to see the state of the intake valves before committing to it. Especially if it didn’t actually need one

Think i'd be tempted to take off some hoses to see if there is much oil residue?

Maybe you can take off this elbow - and pop an USB endoscope in to see what the intake/valves look like?

example: