How do you get a software update from SEAT?

[SteveUK]

I've had a series of really weird things happen on my 2021 Leon PHEV. It forgot it had cruise control one day. The next day it forgot it had a radio.
Pulling over and doing a off/on and 10 second restart on the infotainment brought things back.
Then it started to get really weird. Insisting the petrol engine must run when I drove off in EV mode, and then almost immediately switching back to electric motor, then starting the petrol again, then back to electric... (I have a video, it's possessed!). It would even kick in the petrol engine when I was coasting down a hill, even in neutral, and even when braking (I played about trying to find some logic to it!).
I changed the 12v battery (as these are often a source of demonic possession and it is 5 years old).

Booked it into local dealer. Who first told me I can't just change the 12v battery (WTF?! I rebuilt a car engine when I was in my teens FFS!).
Anyway, after their investigation they said it was a fault in the HV battery with a sensor giving erroneous readings, and that they couldn't do it and I would have to go to a battery centre (yes, nearest ones are over an hour away).
Whilst waiting for that booking I didn't bother charging the car and let it go to 0% (it normally doesn't get below 20%)... The car behaved normally as a petrol only (with start/stop).
After a couple of days of that I thought "I wonder..." and I stuck 30% charge into the HV... The car behaved perfectly normally, letting me drive on EV when I wanted, and hybrid. Next day I gave it 100% charge. It drove home on pure EV, and back to the office on pure EV.

A week later it's now behaving perfectly normally and I've cancelled the service booking.

As a software developer by profession, this is screaming "software bug!" at me, and I would like to get the car updated. If it's any indication, the infotainment is version 1790 (iirc), which the dealer admitted is old, but he said they don't do software updates unless SEAT tell them to. How on earth do I get SEAT to tell them to update the software? The dealer also told me it's about a 4 hours job, which I guess was a hint that they would charge me 4 hours of labour for having a cable plugged into the car and then they walk off and leave it updating?

 

[Tell]

Im glad you use the word software since "firmware" is a pre mod word here. With the post 2020 cars fiddling with the software yourself is asking for trouble. Beyond the infotainment system they are done by the dealer. Over air does the infotainment but similar to mib2 standard as I understand you hit an issue at the end of a "train" in old mib2 standard talk. Only a dealer can do it. That might be where the 4 hours comes in.

James who works for a dealer will be more precise than I and fellow owners of that car will know what they are on. Hybrids are a curious world... you might have one of those that James recently explained to me. Personally I'd jump a hybrid and go directly to an EV but that isn't much help. I'll see if I can did up that curious conversation...

Here we are... not one of these then

2025 Leon 1.5 eTSi MHEV DSG - 12v battery warnings

Hi there, What's the issue with the 12v battery charging on the 1.5 eTSi MHEV? We keep getting warnings on the dash, 12v battery low, then followed by 12v battery critical turning off infotainment etc. Is there a software update for it? We've got it booked in next week at the dealership, but...

www.seatcupra.net

@James_R is you man on this.

 

[SRGTD]

I think I remember reading somewhere a while ago (sorry, can’t be certain if I did or remember where ) that PHEV’s have a fuel management system. If a PHEV is used mainly on short journeys and is run in electric mode most of the time, the fuel management system will start up and run the internal combustion engine periodically to use the petrol in the tank so it doesn’t go ‘stale’.

@SteveUK - if you’re using your PHEV as above (you’ve not said if you are), then maybe that’s why the petrol engine starts up for seemingly no apparent reason.

As @Tell has said, @James_R is your man and I dare say he’ll be along in due course and provide his input.

 

[Tell]

I muttered about hybrids getting stuck on the road outside . That may be it with the erratic petrol. Honest John's moan was people never managed to charge up the 12v battery since they drove in EV mode and never charged it. James statement above was the 12v got charged from the 48v battery rather than any other way. That would be a new one for Honest John at the time. So the 48v battery does the 12v. How I remember it.

Old firmware it might be the case the case that over the air can't get you over the current version. A dealer job. Over the air is free if even out of contract but has limits if you reach the end of the development version. Cunning.

 

[serdar_18fr]

but he said they don't do software updates unless SEAT tell them to. How on earth do I get SEAT to tell them to update the software? The dealer also told me it's about a 4 hours job, which I guess was a hint that they would charge me 4 hours of labour for having a cable plugged into the car and then they walk off and leave it updating?

Your car may have a pending "baseline update", which can be checked via your car's VIN. SEAT periodically assigns these complete updates to VINs when they are available, so what the dealer was talking about is probably that VIN check. If they see on the system that your car has a pending update, usually checked when a car come in for a periodical service, they ask you if you want it. With a baseline update, all control units that have newer versions of their firmware gets updated so it is normal for it to take some time.

 

[Tell]

That will be the non over the air ones. Only the infotainment unit in these cars get over the air. Fully connected cars the lot but Vag aren't there yet. Hence the issue when people do DIY updates and that word prohibited on the board

 

[James_R]

There's nothing stopping anyone with access to the factory tooling (ODIS) and permission to use the files on the VWG servers from carrying out updates, including franchise dealerships, the brand don't hold the key to the servers and personally I've never had to seek permission from them to carry out an update in 22 years.

With an online ODIS connection you can generally check for available updates then perform them should you see fit. On some vehicles you can't directly update individual control modules and have to use an "Action" or "SVM" (software version management) code to perform the task instead.

For example, when using a diagnostic address to directly check and access a module you would input the module address into the ODIS SVM section, The Engine Control Module being address "0001". The software will run a check of what's installed on the vehicle vs what's stored on the server. If there's an updated version available then it'll be displayed and you can update the module, an already up-to-date module will display the message "data version current", that means there is no newer version.

If the diagnostic address option is not available then the "action" or "SVM" code is used instead. These codes are provided in brand specific technical bulletins, the workshop manual, parts catalogue or by the technical support team in Milton Keynes. Once you input the code, you get the same results as above, same process with a different point of entry.

So in your case, for example, they might well be able to check for updates on:

0001 ECU
0002 TCU
0051 Power invertor
00C6 HV battery charger
00C8 HV battery management

Then again, there could be a tech bulletin that contains your symptoms and or fault codes, with a repair path that could include parts replacement or software updates.

All the info above refers to pre-UNECE vehicles (those released before mid 2024) where individual modules could be altered.

Now, on UNECE compliant vehicles they use software "baselines", where all applicable modules are checked then updated at the same time. These updates can literally take days to complete. I'm led to believe that this update system was introduced to enhance vehicle security as a result of the increased amount of in-car connectivity that was being rolled out at the time, to help combat the liklihood of the vehicle being hacked. All the software is tested as a package and secured before release.

You might see the terms PV4, PV5 etc used on the Internet, that basically stands for Product Version, then the number after PV is the version the vehicle currently falls under. PV5.2 is the latest version I can say that I've come across.

Your vehicle obviously isn't impacted by the UNECE restrictions.

I can check if there are tech bulletins for your vehicle, there will 100% be updates for the infotainment system and SOS module, but I can't check what versions your running as I can't see what other dealers have read from your vehicle.

Sorry for war and peace, you asked for the info, there it is

 

[Tell]

The DIY may use the knock off files that the board has clamped up on and as you say without ODIS you are a bit in the dark. So fiddling with the 2020 cars and above without the appropriate tools like people did in the past is prone to issues .

I don't think people have fully realise that one. Vag also control the optional goodies now so if you didn't buy them at the time, chances of fitting them cheap have diminished unless you master ODIS....

 

[East Yorkshire Retrofits]

I've had a series of really weird things happen on my 2021 Leon PHEV. It forgot it had cruise control one day. The next day it forgot it had a radio.
Pulling over and doing a off/on and 10 second restart on the infotainment brought things back.
Then it started to get really weird. Insisting the petrol engine must run when I drove off in EV mode, and then almost immediately switching back to electric motor, then starting the petrol again, then back to electric... (I have a video, it's possessed!). It would even kick in the petrol engine when I was coasting down a hill, even in neutral, and even when braking (I played about trying to find some logic to it!).
I changed the 12v battery (as these are often a source of demonic possession and it is 5 years old).

Booked it into local dealer. Who first told me I can't just change the 12v battery (WTF?! I rebuilt a car engine when I was in my teens FFS!).
Anyway, after their investigation they said it was a fault in the HV battery with a sensor giving erroneous readings, and that they couldn't do it and I would have to go to a battery centre (yes, nearest ones are over an hour away).
Whilst waiting for that booking I didn't bother charging the car and let it go to 0% (it normally doesn't get below 20%)... The car behaved normally as a petrol only (with start/stop).
After a couple of days of that I thought "I wonder..." and I stuck 30% charge into the HV... The car behaved perfectly normally, letting me drive on EV when I wanted, and hybrid. Next day I gave it 100% charge. It drove home on pure EV, and back to the office on pure EV.

A week later it's now behaving perfectly normally and I've cancelled the service booking.

As a software developer by profession, this is screaming "software bug!" at me, and I would like to get the car updated. If it's any indication, the infotainment is version 1790 (iirc), which the dealer admitted is old, but he said they don't do software updates unless SEAT tell them to. How on earth do I get SEAT to tell them to update the software? The dealer also told me it's about a 4 hours job, which I guess was a hint that they would charge me 4 hours of labour for having a cable plugged into the car and then they walk off and leave it updating?

We offer an all in software update service for your car

All in update package for VWAG vehicles

Our all in update package includes every single available software update for your vehicle, performed here at our workshop in BridlingtonIf you're unsure what platform your vehicle is based on, please contact us. UNECE R155 R156 vehicles may incur additional charges however this would be made...

eastyorkshireretrofits.co.uk

 

[SteveUK]

We offer an all in software update service for your car

All in update package for VWAG vehicles

Our all in update package includes every single available software update for your vehicle, performed here at our workshop in BridlingtonIf you're unsure what platform your vehicle is based on, please contact us. UNECE R155 R156 vehicles may incur additional charges however this would be made...

eastyorkshireretrofits.co.uk

Thanks, but you're a little bit of a drive for me... I'm basically in the Thames!

Is there anywhere nearer than Yorkshire?

 

[SteveUK]

I think I remember reading somewhere a while ago (sorry, can’t be certain if I did or remember where ) that PHEV’s have a fuel management system. If a PHEV is used mainly on short journeys and is run in electric mode most of the time, the fuel management system will start up and run the internal combustion engine periodically to use the petrol in the tank so it doesn’t go ‘stale’.

@SteveUK - if you’re using your PHEV as above (you’ve not said if you are), then maybe that’s why the petrol engine starts up for seemingly no apparent reason.

As @Tell has said, @James_R is your man and I dare say he’ll be along in due course and provide his input.

Yes, I'm very aware of the normal fuel and engine warm up cycle. I do drive a lot of driving in EV only. I've had the car a couple of years.
When the normal fuel and engine cycle kicks in, it only does it once you have already triggered the petrol engine to start by demanding more power with your right foot. Then the "Engine needs to run for longer" message appears once on the dash, and the engine keeps running. It idles whilst stopped and drives like an old petrol car without start/stop feature. Usually after 15 or 20 minutes of driving, it's satisfied. I know this because my drive to the office is less than 15 to 20 minutes, so when that message pops up, I have to take a longer route home to satisfy it or it'll do it until I meet its undocumented requirements.

So whilst this fault shares the same message, the behaviour is very different. It self initiates, and also shuts itself down again within a few seconds.
You wanna see?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RqsX1GZJrUQbSz9kDiO3oXauKPyNiN_x/view?usp=drive_link

 

[East Yorkshire Retrofits]

Thanks, but you're a little bit of a drive for me... I'm basically in the Thames!

Is there anywhere nearer than Yorkshire?

Not that I'm aware of, especially nothing even remotely close to our price. Dealers often charge that much for one update nevermind every outstanding update

 

[SteveUK]

Not that I'm aware of, especially nothing even remotely close to our price. Dealers often charge that much for one update nevermind every outstanding update

EEEEK....

Why am I hearing "we buy any car dot com" tune in my head?! LOL!

OK, I'll ask... How much would you charge for a 2021 Leon PHEV with the early infotainment unit which seems to be on 1790 (iirc), and never gets updated, even when I ask them to - Can it even be updated? And who knows what with the rest of the car's modules!

 

[East Yorkshire Retrofits]

EEEEK....

Why am I hearing "we buy any car dot com" tune in my head?! LOL!

OK, I'll ask... How much would you charge for a 2021 Leon PHEV with the early infotainment unit which seems to be on 1790 (iirc), and never gets updated, even when I ask them to - Can it even be updated? And who knows what with the rest of the car's modules!

£265 for every outstanding software update, including VAT

 

[Tell]

That could add up to a bit. Those that didnt like their car tracking them going into incognito never got the infotainment updates. False info was given turn on incognito so you don't get the warnings from the telematics box. The thing to do was to get the telematics box sorted and take the updates.

Then you have the other guys doing their software updates but only updating the infotainment system and not the rest. It's the rest that's £265 a time on the price above. The rest was always out of the scope of the hobbyist... there might be a few round here. On the infotainment system you got those bumps in the road which are dealer / ODIS / retrofitter only not just running the software. A kin to the mib2 standard where there were generations of software. Mib2 high was kinder but you needed the hobbyists with their AIO software. Security in mib3 has shut the hobbyists out.

Anyway there are holiday things you can do in Yorkshire. No shortage. I suspect East Yorkshire tell you once there what needs attention. Walks and fish and chips await....