1.2 engine rattle?

[commievid]

Hi all,

Finished up the spring/damper swap on the wife's car, and whilst driving it around, noticed a rattling sound only at 2500rpm.

Seems to be around the engine, and only around 2500rpm, nothing less and nothing more.

Swotting up online suggests it could be the exhaust, or the timing chain.

Wouldn't the timing chain/tensioner rattle throughout the rev range? If anything be noticeable at idle?

The flexi section on the downpipe is looking terrible, but I don't want to swap that out if it isn't completely broken yet.

Just wanted to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar?

 

[britishsligean]

Check you oil, i had a rattle from the engine on my 1.2 and that was only at a certain rev range, turned out there was no oil, when i put oil in no more rattling

 

[commievid]

Checked oil level this morning. Difficult to tell the level consistently, was either 1/4 or fine, depending on what side, so decided to top up 400ml or so.

Just took it for a jaunt and now the car is rattling like hell, at idle and simply worse when on the throttle.

Only changed the suspension and oil, not at all sure why this is happening, but it is certainly not sounding healthy.

 

[commievid]

Car is now making very loud knocking noises now, after a couple of hours driving.

Very loud, increases rate of knocking with revs.

Just checked the oil level with the car off for a few hours, and it appears around the halfway mark, or at least I think it does. It needs a few wipes and checks with the dipstick to suss out a reading, like there is oil along the dipstick tube messing up the reading.

I'm currently fearing the worst, like I may have overfilled, but will have a look tomorrow morning.

 

[mty12345]

Sounds like a lack of oil rather than too much! If the knocking is getting worse then stop driving it until you have sorted the issue. Does the 1.2 have a duel mass flywheel? If so then they can make a noise when failing.

 

[commievid]

Not sure about the dual mass flywheel, I would have doubted it given it's just a 1.2.

Changed the oil again this morning, left oil to halfway on the dipstick, and dropped it off to the garage.

Doing my self esteem and most likely my bank balance no favours. Not liking this car much anymore.

 

[mty12345]

Just one of those things buddy, i'm sure the garage will get to the bottom of it. Hopefully nothing too expensive,possibly just a chain tensioner, but if so it needed doing before iit let your cambelt jump.

 

[Rob]

I have this problem. It's the actuator rod thing from the turbo. Mine has a shim fitted to help but it's still there. Just one of those a noises that doesn't effect it. Happens at about 2.5k revs coming off the throttle.
Silly question maybe.. But could it be the common fuel pipe rattle where it vibrates against the chassis. Located next to the water bottle top left of the engine.


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[commievid]

Not sure if it's pertinent to this car, being a 1.2 non-turbo.

Garage got back to and have suggested that they would need to strip the head to diagnose the problem. I asked if it was possible for it to be the bottom end and something serious but they said no, but still not exactly sure.

Not really up for this to be honest, might have to say goodbye.

I've got the car home and here's a recording of the noise involved, which I want to paste the URL here for but can't, something about 15 posts. If you go to Youtube and search "SEAT Ibiza awful rattle" it should be there, 54s clip.

No apparent loss of power, could be a function of the rattle getting crazy loud when putting power so not giving it the beans. With the cover off, it could either be from the inlet manifold, or indeed somewhere within the head. Timing chain?

 

[Rob]

Sounds like valves or tappets of some description. I'm by no means a mechanic though...


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[commievid]

Ok, did some swotting up and reading on the Haynes manual.

If we assume that this noise is only involving the hydraulic lifters/tappets, say it's collapsed (possible), then to get the head cover off, entails:

Auxiliary belt and pulleys off.
Timing bits locked.
Crankshaft pulley off.
Sump off (!).
Timing chain cover off.
Sprockets off.
Something to support engine.
Engine mount off (may have already happened).
Cylinder cover off.
Rocker arms and tappets should now be visible.

What a massive ball ache. Especially if it turns out there's further damage to say the camshaft(s) and even down to the valves, which would entail the entire cylinder head to be looked at.

Even just to strip it down this far, would need an assortment of new bolts (one use only) and a bunch of different sealants when reassembling the various covers and sumps.

Would make sense whilst there to change out the timing chain and assorted tensioners and sprockets anyway, so that's about £100 there too.

Sigh.

 

[Arkaig]

Check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVyQ7cUEVUQ

Sounds similar. 1.2s are known for chains jumping. Since yours is running and starting OK the damage may be limited, but it might be worth changing the valves anyway. If you intend to keep it that is.

 

[Arkaig]

You might also get lucky and it could be a pulley or the water pump, although those tend to rumble rather than rattle. Either way it's worth changing the chain in that case as they do stretch and cause problems.

 

[commievid]

Hi,

Comments on that video suggest a spun bearing, which would be the biggest thing I'm dreading. If the valves are involved, then it's more than just the head cover and it's the entire head off.

Granted, probably only a few more steps if I wanted to go that far, but still way too involved.

Going to have to look for options in regards changing the car.

Frustrating as I spent £100 repairing the cluster, £80 for VCDS tool (£50 being a Windows tablet), and about £350 for new springs, dampers and other suspension bits and bobs.

If anyone wants standard springs and dampers that have barely done 100 miles, let me know! I'll probably chuck the old ones back on as it'd be a waste otherwise.

 

[mty12345]

The way that noise sounds, it's more like the timing chain tensioner or something in the head. It doesn't sound like bottom end noise to me.

 

[James_R]

I've never seen a 1.2 12v engine cause any damage when the chain slips.

I've put a new chain, guides and tensioner on everyone I've done and it's been fine.

 

[commievid]

That's reassuring!

I guess I could try the timing chain first, see how we get on, then I guess if the noise is still there, annoying though it is to disassemble all over again, at least I know'll the steps, have the tools, and only need the crankshaft pulley bolt.

 

[James_R]

You can buy the kit from tps or seat. you can reuse the crank bolt

 

[commievid]

I'm seeing part number D 176 404 A2 for sealant for the oil sump, no problem.

However, not 100% sure about sealant for the timing chain cover and/or the camshaft carrier/cylinder head cover.

I see D 176 501 A1 being possible, but I also see anaerobic sealants like AFD-2000 being suggested.

Or would any RTV type sealant be sufficient?

 

[James_R]

rtv will do for both.