1.4tsi remap
- Thread starter Big-Pete
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Ive had Shark, APR and Jabbasport. Shark maxed out my boost bigstyl for that reason i wouldnt recommend them. Stronger map than REVO stage 2 whether on the dyno or road. Not as quick as the APR stage 2 map of my friends Polo GTI which is also a lighter car than my vRS.
I went with Jabbasport after. Made 3Hp more but with 0.3 bar less boost. Slower midrange. As quick as REVO stage 2 cars. Less midrange than Shark but was a good map.
Went Stag2 APR rior to the Stage 3 development. Quicke and smoother than all the previous, switchable. I only changed to APR because of the stage 3 development, i was happy at Jabba, but the APR map is better without doubt.
I went with Jabbasport after. Made 3Hp more but with 0.3 bar less boost. Slower midrange. As quick as REVO stage 2 cars. Less midrange than Shark but was a good map.
Went Stag2 APR rior to the Stage 3 development. Quicke and smoother than all the previous, switchable. I only changed to APR because of the stage 3 development, i was happy at Jabba, but the APR map is better without doubt.
My car was the development for their map. This is why i changed map
Basically they requested a boost that was un-achievable with the stock turbo meaning it had to work at 100% duty cycle in an attempt to meet the requested boost. This would have killed my turbo very quickly. My car at the time was putting out white smoke which stopped when i changed map and its never returned since. Plus the car suffered heatsoak big time. Made great figures though (213Hp/260lbft iirc with decat OEM and stage 2 map).
Basically they requested a boost that was un-achievable with the stock turbo meaning it had to work at 100% duty cycle in an attempt to meet the requested boost. This would have killed my turbo very quickly. My car at the time was putting out white smoke which stopped when i changed map and its never returned since. Plus the car suffered heatsoak big time. Made great figures though (213Hp/260lbft iirc with decat OEM and stage 2 map).
My car was the development for their map. This is why i changed map
Basically they requested a boost that was un-achievable with the stock turbo meaning it had to work at 100% duty cycle in an attempt to meet the requested boost. This would have killed my turbo very quickly. My car at the time was putting out white smoke which stopped when i changed map and its never returned since. Plus the car suffered heatsoak big time. Made great figures though (213Hp/260lbft iirc with decat OEM and stage 2 map).
thats all fine and dandy but ive been speaking to a few of the tuners recently and it seems that "shark are at the peak when it comes to the new ecus", < that was from a 100% reliable source. the person that told me that is also at the forefront of the tunning world for seats/vags. nad ill take his word over yours.
but im here to listen to other peoples ideas. if you guys prefer a revo to apr or amd to shark etc
keep posting in the poll let me know what you guys like
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That's fine but ask yourself, why would I change tuner if I was getting all the development work for free with shark. I was their biggest advocate before hand and its only the issues I was having which made me get it checked out.
That said this went public bigstyle so id imagine they have changed their tuning methods and won't be tuning in this method anymore. You pays your money you make your choice.
That said this went public bigstyle so id imagine they have changed their tuning methods and won't be tuning in this method anymore. You pays your money you make your choice.
sour grapes. shark know what they are doing. if my source said they are at the peak of ecu tuniing on the new engines then i belive him.
The only ones publicly still developing/supporting this engine are APR, when was the last time anyone came on here and chose Shark over APR or REVO? I searched through around 2 years worth of back posts on a few forums do to with tuning options on our engines and kept coming back to the big two.
After seeing REVO weren't really that interested in developing a stage 3 map and APR were sort of keen and eventually did start on it that was one of the major points that helped me make my decision. Not because I will ever go that far but they can learn more from pushing the engine and update their stage 1/2 if they ever come across anything.
I travelled 200+ miles each way to get my APR map when I could have went 35miles for a REVO one.
After seeing REVO weren't really that interested in developing a stage 3 map and APR were sort of keen and eventually did start on it that was one of the major points that helped me make my decision. Not because I will ever go that far but they can learn more from pushing the engine and update their stage 1/2 if they ever come across anything.
I travelled 200+ miles each way to get my APR map when I could have went 35miles for a REVO one.
I've got a Jabba Stage 1,
Know a few others on here (Duzza and someone else) that have had the jabba map since mine, as well as VRSY going to get the work done. That was a crazy idea to try request that much boost, suppose it finds the limits of the turbo pretty quickly though!
I'm sure Jabba would go as far as someone wanted, they would defo go past stage 1 to 2/2+
Does seem APR are the new REVO in town however.
Jay
Know a few others on here (Duzza and someone else) that have had the jabba map since mine, as well as VRSY going to get the work done. That was a crazy idea to try request that much boost, suppose it finds the limits of the turbo pretty quickly though!
I'm sure Jabba would go as far as someone wanted, they would defo go past stage 1 to 2/2+
Does seem APR are the new REVO in town however.
Jay
Anthony haddad
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Anthony haddad
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Upsolute remap is not that aggressive map but it's a reliable one everyone who's mapping with upsolute is not having any gearbox or ECU problems at least in my country i live in lebanon
Definitely have sour grapes. I won't deny it. It was a genuine reason.
Seems pointless starting a thread about this when your already sure of going to shark.
Here was my review of jabbasport.
Shark Map is now off. *Jabba map is now on
A bit of background
You probably already know, but i donated my car to Shark Performance to have them develop a remap for the 1.4TSI back May last year in return for a F.O.C remap. *I had been on the look out for a map and at the time was torn between APR and Shark for the job, Shark made the offer of no cost for development, to which i jumped at the opportunity. *Saved me £400 B)
I received the car back and "*&^ me it was quicker, massively so. *I was very happy with it and as most guys on here will say, ive been a pretty big advocate of the Shark Performance map and its performance.
This was with shark stage 2, decat OEm DP and everything else standard.
As you can see huge midrange gains and the car went like a rocket.You'll have seen that i have posted many times about the biggest issues with this engine being the massive temperatures of the intake air charge, cylinder block and engine bay etc,Anyway, this is where i began to notice it more and more. *The car suffered very excessive heatsoak, very notable on the 1/4 mile strip where it went like the clappers the first 3/4s but power began to wear off towards the end as temperatures rose. *
The same effect was noted on trackdays and in hot weather so i began to investigate what options I had for cooling to a safer level and ended up with the Pace Products Intercooler & radiator package which helped no end with the heat issues.
Why i changed map
The heat issues were reduced but not omitted, and i had started to get plumes of grey/white smoke from the exhaust at times but never consistently, if anything it was when the car had been driven for prolonged periods. *Shark believed the turbo to be on the way out which is never good news, but i thought well if its going to go pop, then its going to go pop. *I might as well look into upgrading/recondition the turbo to be stronger and flow more to make some more power at the same time.
Shark believed this was not an option as the fueling system was maxed out and said they could map a hybrid on, but warned that they expected it to spit all of the pistons out when the injectors fail to flow enough fuel etc, however i was aware of many other tuning companies such as APR and other euro tuners had already done this with no fueling issues.
I had also been logging temperatures and other parameters where i found fueling to be relatively low on the high pressure side with plenty of headroom and boost to be very high. *The map requested over 2Bar(29psi) of boost of which is massively higher than this turbo is rated at resulting in the car only managing to make 1.6Bar(23psi). *Looking at the N75 duty cycle which was showing 100% over the whole rev range you can see the turbo was running at its absolute maximum all of the time trying to manage the requested 2 Bar and not even getting close. *Normally when the car makes the requested boost the N75 duty cycle will drop down to 75-80%ish. *This to me was the likely cause of the grey/white smoke etc.
At this point i had now started looking into other maps for the possibility of either hybrids or switchable options with water methanol injection. *I considered REVO and APR, and very nearly went with REVO who offered me a very very competitive price for swapping to them, however they werent keen on going any further than stage 2 and wouldn't be interested in a hybrid upgrade which i found disappointing. *
I then found out that Jabbasport now had the equipment in house to access encrypted ECUs, and they had already remapped a 1.4TSI Ibiza Cupra of Seatcupra.net which made very good peak Hp figures, but they customized it to his exact requirements limiting the mid-range torque as he requested the peak torque to not rise above stock levels. *I *liked the idea of a tuner doing the map on car to my specification and jabba also seemed interested in further modifications such as hybrids etc so i made the decision to let them set about my car.
Jabbasport remap
Shark had requested that i return my map to stock before allowing another tuner to map my car, which was the ideal scenario for me as it meant that i could have the most recent ECU software update for my car. *However i wanted to see how the car compared to the jabba map before and after so i drove down last week, had the car run on the rolling road to get a set of before figures, i then went to the Skoda dealership had the ECU update and dropped the car off with jabba. *
Kev@ Jabbasport then began to ask about the current and planned modifications, discussed the forge intake that i had removed, talked about how the last map was, issues with heat on the strip and track, what i liked about the shark power delivery and what i didnt, what would i change, where i wanted gains, what sort of figures were on my mind. *We also highlighted that the way the accelerator pedal was electronically linked to the throttle butterfly wasn't ideal. *Essentially with the accelerator pedal 3/4 depressed the ratio of pedal movement to throttle opening suddenly increases dramatically, which on long fast corners of trackdays is a pain to modulate. *So he also planned to alter the throttle maps to ensure that the pedal:throttle ratio was as close to 1:1 ratio as possible to make modulating the throttle much easier. *Well chuffed with that, not aware of any other tuners currently doing this on the 1.4TSI.
My requests for jabbasport
I dont think i made this easy for them.
-I wanted the throttle map changed to emulate that of a throttle cable and a 1:1 ratio of pedal to throttle.
-I wanted a similar midrange to the Shark stage 2 map,
-I wanted slightly more top end, somewhere in the region of 215-225hp depending on the before after results. *
BUT
-I wanted this done with much less boost so that i could have some longevity and mechanical sympathy for the drive train and turbo.
AND
- I wanted them to look into the viability of upgrading the turbocharger to a hybrid with regards to heat, high pressure fueling and injector duty cycle.
The results
The car was running the Pace intercooler, Pace Radiator, decat OEM downpipe, and the relevant map details shown below. *All other parts were 100% standard.
I have the Shark stage 2 graph, stock graph and Jabbasport custom graph. *All graphs have DIN correction which mean that the figures have been corrected to take into account the differing temperatures between the runs to make them directly comparable.
Normally the power & torque curves cross at 5252rpm. *This isn't happening on these graphs due to the differing scales and the 2 x Vertical axis. (Thought id point this out before those with quick eyes notice).
Stock power
As you can see the figures look to be spot on. 179.7Hp/257NM (189 lbft). *These are bang on what you would expect of a stock car, although bare in mind my car is not stock and has the IC/Rad and DP, so if anything the rollers were reading low.
Shark Performance Stage 2 @ 1.6Bar(23psi)
211hp/375NM(276 lbft). *This torque figure seems quite high and is thought to be above the torque limit that people believe is applied to the DSG box on this car. *Jabbasport said that the DSG seemed to have 3 x flashes on it, so im guessing shark had managed to access it and raise the limiters. *But the torque and power figures here are around the same as the previous dynodynamics run at the beginning of this post(which was done without the intercooler)
Jabbasport custom @ 2.3Bar(19psi) 216Hp/357NM(263lbft)
Jabba had a tough criteria to meet, but have hit the nail in first time. *Midrange very similar-slightly less, but thast because of the boost difference, spool of the turbo is faster and earlier, the requested boost is met across the entire RPM band and is 0.3Bar(4.3psi) lower, the N75 duty cycle now runns at a healthy 75-80%, the throttle map has been altered, there is slightly more peak power and they are keen for me to come back with a hybrid turbo B) B) B) *
My thoughts
-Power delivery seems silky smooth and very progressive.
Mid-range isnt quite as strong as the Shark map ie, in 5th and 60 for an overtake, but change it down to 4th and its the same if not stronger.
-Top end - Not tried it to much tbh, the weather isnt ideal, but it feels very strong.
-Throttle map change - Seems to be a massive improvment. *I had a try with the throttle at 3/4 and it is a lot more progressive rather than a sudden lurch. *That was only in a straight line though, never fancied trying it in a fast corner on the roads tonight
Its a little to early to tell if the heat issues have disappeared as its very cold outside but id imagine that theres a huge decrease compared to before. *
Theres also NO GREY/WHITE SMOKE.
Im massively impressed that Jabba have managed all the above with 0,3Bar(4.3psi) less boost than the previous map. *
Very very happy with the results, very happy with the customer service and even better, Kev has been through the logs and maps with a fine tooth comb and the hybrid IS AN OPTION in the future. *theres plenty of room on the high pressure fuel side and injectors. *If anything the standard turbo is now the main restriction on the *car. *An intake will relieve the turbo now as its having to really suck the air in through the stock intake. *The ITG should sort that one perfectly. *So then its either a Loba Hybrid turbo swap or upgrade the compressor wheel on mine and trim the exhaust turbine a little.
Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy
And as if they couldnt do anything more to please me:
They have changed the settings of the XDS (electronic diff) from setting zero(weak) upto Setting 2(strong) and WHAT A DIFFERENCE. *Thats for another thread.
Ive now got the logs for standard and jabba custom for future reference and comparison. So i am going to graph them up and compare them to the previous logs i have with the shark map to see how they compare on boost/N75/fueling/intake air temps/timing etc.
Big thanks to Kev at Jabba who did the mapping and replied to my constant messaging about progress lol. *Top bloke.
Was it worth spending out on a custom map to get an extra 5Hp....I think so. *TBH im not out of pocket anyway, ive now spent what i would have if i hadnt had a free map.
thats all fine and dandy but ive been speaking to a few of the tuners recently and it seems that "shark are at the peak when it comes to the new ecus", < that was from a 100% reliable source. the person that told me that is also at the forefront of the tunning world for seats/vags. nad ill take his word over yours.
but im here to listen to other peoples ideas. if you guys prefer a revo to apr or amd to shark etc
keep posting in the poll let me know what you guys like
Dont want to start an argument but thats a rediculous thing to say, vrsy has documentedevidence to prove the tuning was floored, I mean who actually tunes cars this way, its like just fitting a manual boost controller and turing it up to the max, yes you will get maximum boost but not necessarily more power in relation to a lower boost map which has all its variables adjusted in a specific way so the result is near the same for day to day driving, but has longevity. I dont even think shark asked vrsy(appologies if im wrong) if he wanted to get his dsg tuned, but they did it anyway by fiddling the torque limit. Should this 3k unit have gone bang, he would have footed the bill because he had no idea of its higher state of tune.
FWIW i would go apr as said below, they have taken this engine further than anyone, they had a very good map with their partner harding performance in australia who were praized by the tuning community and caused a bit of a stir. By pushing boundies in development you are further pushing your boundries of experience and knowlage and therefore have a higher understanding of the basics.
Globally people are already gaining from people who develop state of the art technology, because it results in new findings or methods migrating down to simple devices.
Thus, GO APR
This is true with the latest stage 1 & 2 APR maps. The latest revision maps gain over 40lbft more torque in the midrange over the earlier revisions of the 1.4TSI maps hence their latest stage 1 maps producing over 250lbft. This revision came as a result of learning more about the ECU from the stage 3 development.
Earlier revision
Latest Revision after the stage 3 development works
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I dont know why you would ask for an opinion and then when someones brings you facts and experiences you disregard it.
vRSy has obviously tried different maps and spent alot of time collating information for us guys so we know who we can trust and who offers the best product.
It's pretty obvious that APR are the way to go on this one, stage 1 map is stronger than any others ive seen and have had raving reviews since they have been back on the scence, there developments with the 2.5tfsi are awesome aswell.
Its your car so do as you please but i dont see the point in asking for advice and then slating it when someone gives you an honest opinion.
vRSy has obviously tried different maps and spent alot of time collating information for us guys so we know who we can trust and who offers the best product.
It's pretty obvious that APR are the way to go on this one, stage 1 map is stronger than any others ive seen and have had raving reviews since they have been back on the scence, there developments with the 2.5tfsi are awesome aswell.
Its your car so do as you please but i dont see the point in asking for advice and then slating it when someone gives you an honest opinion.
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